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Author Topic: UPS back up for Barco 23B an 20c
Mike Moreno
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 200
From: culiacan sinaloa mexico
Registered: Jul 2008


 - posted 07-06-2013 01:11 PM      Profile for Mike Moreno   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Moreno   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear frends, I have 3 Barco 23B and 3 20C projectors, they have a connection for UPS at 230V.
did some one can tell me how many watts does the UPS should be?

thanks

mike Moreno

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 07-06-2013 01:25 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you planning to put them all on a big central UPS or connect them to a UPS individually?

Also, you only want to hook up the projectors to the UPS(es) or also other equipment?

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-06-2013 04:10 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would assume they would be one UPS per projector. I use 1,500 Watts for each screen as it's relatively affordable. I plug in the server and switch as well.

Of course, this will only hold up the electronics for perhaps 10 minutes but the idea is to work during brownouts and short power outages. It gets very expensive to use a bigger UPS.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 07-06-2013 04:51 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My Barco systems were provided (each) with a Tripp Lite SMX-3000 230 volt UPS for the projectors, and a Tripp Lite "Smart 1500LCD" 120 volt UPS for the rack equipment. Out of curiosity, I shut the power off, to see how long they'd run. I gave up and turned the power back on after 45 minutes, as I'll never need that much capacity.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-06-2013 08:31 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They used the 3000VA because they didn't know another way to get 220V. Tripplite does make a lower VA with 220V...like the SMX1000RT2U which is 1000VA. If you measure the current consumption of the Barco projector electronics you'll find that is about 1A at 208V. So even a 1000VA is sufficient to drive just the projector for most any typical brown outs.

Another way is to use a suitable stepup transformer and stick with a 120V UPS...if you are doing a server and projector (and possibly the sound processor...etc.)...then I agree with Sam that 1500VA is a good size to back it all up.

From Tripplite, I would stick with the SmartOnline (best) and the SmartPro (good). The SmartOnline series is a double-conversion system so there is zero transfer time between UPS and city power. The backed up equipment will not know there was any issue with the power whatsoever. The SmartPro is a true sine wave output UPS but it is a line-interactive one. Note, it also regulates the voltage so that the output voltage remains at 120V during brown outs.

Don't go cheap on UPSes or you won't be protecting the equipment like you intended. Some projector brands a MUCH more sensitive to power fluctuations than others too.

Also remember that UPS batteries are generally good for about 3-years and swell with age (Lead Acid gel cells)...they need to be changed out regularly or they can swell to the point that they won't be able to be changed.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 07-06-2013 10:17 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would the 3000 or 5000 VA models keep a show going uninterrupted during short (under 1 minute) blackouts? We have several short power outages here in the course of a year.

Our installer has us on a 120V UPS which keeps things going long enough for us to pause the show and shut everything down, but the lamp obviously does not stay lit requiring us to re strike manually. I have never really been happy with this solution.

NEC NC2000
SX 2000

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-07-2013 04:28 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A general rule of thumb is that if you are at the maximum VA for the UPS...you get about 5 minutes of power.

Since you have a NC2000, you are likely running 20-30A of power (depends on the lamp and how hard you are driving it). But even at the low end of things you are going to need a 5000VA to keep the lamp lit...more likely you should look an 8KVA unit to carry the full 5500Watt rating of the projector. So you are talking about a few thousand dollars per projector now...and probably over a grand in batteries every 3 years or so.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-07-2013 05:57 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On a doremi you can set a macro to be used when you restart a show due to a power cut. The macro will then make sure that lamp is on, ligts are down, sound is back where it was.
Maybe - not sure - you can also ask the server to rewind a couple of minutes.

You have to press PLAY anyway, just execute a macro instead.

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 07-07-2013 05:58 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't forget that the sound rack should then also play during those brownouts and that is easily another couple kW more.

We use 1.5kVA UPSs for running projector electronics and server. We get some blackouts of 30 minutes and it stays on without a problem. They are rated at 15minutes at 50%, but the electronics don't take more than 10% altogether.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-07-2013 09:46 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it common to put the entire projector on a UPS? That seems like it could get very expensive very quickly just to prepare for what should be a rather rare event. Do these theatres have generators as well, with the UPS just being there to allow time for the generator to start up and stabilize? I would think that there would be other issues with running a theatre during a power outage (no HVAC, emergency lights on in auditoria, no ticket machine/cash register, etc.).

It definitely makes sense to use a UPS for the server and possibly the sound processor, but I am surprised that people are able to justify it for the projector, too, and am curious as to how it is being implemented. I certainly never heard of anyone doing this with film projectors, although I can see where a 10-20 minute boot time for the D-cinema system would be problematic.

Also, what is the failure mode of D-cinema servers in the event of a power failure? Do they start up at the beginning of the movie and require that the operator "fast forward" to the part where the power failed? Or do they remember the playback position and re-start there?

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 07-07-2013 09:50 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've even got my Direct TV on a ups.

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-07-2013 11:08 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes, I love DirecTv, but isn't it a pain in the ___ for that receiver to reboot after a momentary glitch. It takes almost 5 minutes. Good thought Louis.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-07-2013 12:12 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^^^^^ @ Louis and Jeff: True that. [Smile]

quote: Scott Norwood
Is it common to put the entire projector on a UPS? That seems like it could get very expensive very quickly just to prepare for what should be a rather rare event. Do these theatres have generators as well, with the UPS just being there to allow time for the generator to start up and stabilize? I would think that there would be other issues with running a theatre during a power outage (no HVAC, emergency lights on in auditoria, no ticket machine/cash register, etc.).

It definitely makes sense to use a UPS for the server and possibly the sound processor, but I am surprised that people are able to justify it for the projector, too, and am curious as to how it is being implemented. I certainly never heard of anyone doing this with film projectors, although I can see where a 10-20 minute boot time for the D-cinema system would be problematic.

Also, what is the failure mode of D-cinema servers in the event of a power failure? Do they start up at the beginning of the movie and require that the operator "fast forward" to the part where the power failed? Or do they remember the playback position and re-start there?

In my limited experience so far, it IS uncommon for the ENTIRE projector to be on a UPS. I have just been protecting the electronics...(Christie CP2210 and 2220) as the lamp obviously will go out during an outage. That, and the sound rack, etc. It would get very expensive fast to protect ALL of what you'd need to keep the show running (Like Steve said, at least 8kvA or more)so that is rarely done.

Good point on all the other issues of HVAC, etc and emergency lights coming on.

The most sense is to UPS the projector and server, the sound processor is irrelevant in a way since the amps will shut down. The reason you should (IMHO MUST) protect the projector is so that the cooling fans keep running so you don't end up "hot soaking" the projector's lamphouse and electronics. (35mm lamphouses rarely had delicate electronics in them so a hot soak didn't harm anything really.)

The implementation on Christes is really easy: they provide a separate IEC inlet to connect up UPS power. (On the 2210 you simply slide a switch above the IEC inlet..on the 2220 and up, you open a non-security side panel and reconnect a single molex-type connector.) I cannot speak for the other brands on the how-to. Best part: The UPS side is "universal" voltage, anything from 110-250 will work.

SO far, I have never tried to "power fail" a Dolby DSS200 to see where in the playback it will resume, if at all. The long reboot time and uncertainty of how it will act when restarting makes me not want to try it. Maybe someday if I get my own setup here to play around with I'll try it for shits and grins.

Finally, the OP is in Mexico..not exactly a place with the best and most stable power system. [Wink]

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-07-2013 01:44 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco is as easy as Christie are. There is a small IEC to IEC lead where the power switch is. If the lead is in place, the mains will power both electronics and lamp. If you disconnect it, you disconnect the electronics supply and you can connect your UPS IEC lead to the male socket.

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Adam Fraser
Master Film Handler

Posts: 499
From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 07-07-2013 04:31 PM      Profile for Adam Fraser   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Fraser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We currently have the server, router and the 120v side of the projector on a 750VA UPS. It keeps everything running for a few minutes, minus the lamp.

Right now, what I do if the power outage is more than a few seconds where I can just re-strike the lamp, is pause the show, shut everything down, and resume where I left off when the power stabilizes.

When the server reboots, the show resumes where it left off.

I live in a rural area with an outdated power system, the power goes out or flickers quite frequently.

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