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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Pros and Cons of buying used Series 1 Projector (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pros and Cons of buying used Series 1 Projector
Tony Ratcliff
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Madison, IN, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 04-25-2013 02:47 PM      Profile for Tony Ratcliff   Email Tony Ratcliff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is everyone's opinion on the purchase of a used Series 1 projector to install in a non-VPF theater?
What would be the pros, cons and concerns?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-25-2013 03:11 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The quick answer is, don't buy it. Series 1 is out of date. There are used Series 2 projectors available.

You can still use a Series 1, but you run the risk of it becoming non-supported much sooner than with a Series 2. Tell us what brand/model you're considering and you might get more information.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 04-25-2013 03:36 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well assuming the machine is fully updated, running latest hardware version of everything, I don't think they'd become unusable or unsupported very soon. This is only my opinion.

If the price is similar to an used series 2, don't hesitate and go for a series 2!

Series 1 will also provide less light, mainly because of worn out optics.

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Richard May
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1057
From: Floral Park, NY USA
Registered: Aug 2004


 - posted 04-25-2013 04:20 PM      Profile for Richard May   Email Richard May   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We bought 2 used NEC NC800C projectors a year ago. No issues whatsoever. Not a problem with light output at all. Easily getting 14FL with power at 72%.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 04-25-2013 04:33 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No 3D HFR! [Razz]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-25-2013 05:23 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not as much of a nay-sayer on the Series 1s as others but the point should be well taken...they are closer to being unsupported than series 2s.

Image quality should be identical to a series 2.

A late-model series 1 can be quite good, in fact. I wouldn't shy away from a DP1200-DP2000 from Barco though I wouldn't advise on a DP100 at this point. The CP2000-S and SB are real troupers.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 04-26-2013 02:20 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No warranty availability would come to my mind being used equipment..and the cost of a replacement light engine isn't for the weak heart.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-26-2013 09:42 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A series 1 projector should be acceptable but you "get what you pay for". First, if the projector has a TI interface board that's not DCI compatible (it must have Cinelink TLS capability) then you can run into problems with servers - DCI compatible server security software will not work with the projector, and the software can not be reverted to a previous non-DCI version. All new servers are DCI compatible and thus require DCI compatible projectors. The necessary projector upgrade costs somewhere around $1000.00. If you also get the server that was used with the projector you will be OK for now (just don't upgrade the software/firmware to DCI versions!!!) but studios/distributors can "flip the switch" and require DCI compatibilty for all screens whenever they want: any system with incompatible hardware/software will then be dark pending upgrade.
Right now quite a few used S1 projectors are on the market: some sites converting under VPF financing took the opportunity to sell any pre-existing old digital projectors before installing new ones financed under the VPF deal. Expect these to be incompatible.
These S1 projectors were installed to show 3D movies, mostly for Avatar so they've been running since Dec 2009. Many were poorly maintained since a site would only have one or two and the staff were unfamiliar with the service requirements - there were a lot of marketing hype promises made about digital systems and it seems some owners decided nobody had to ever take care of them. I've found such systems with multiple warnings showing on the touchscreen, lamp envelopes black at 200%+ warranty hours, air filters clogged beyond belief, and their coolant depleted and full of clots: the operator (I can't call them projectionists) had no clue what to do about any of these problems.
I've also had the pleasure of re-installing used S1 projectors that were sold "in working order". The installation can go OK or horribly wrong - one projector needed almost everything except the chassis replaced: the light engine was bad, the interface card was bad, the projector controller was bad, and the lamp PS was bad.
Bon Chance!

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Tony Ratcliff
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 216
From: Madison, IN, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 04-26-2013 03:43 PM      Profile for Tony Ratcliff   Email Tony Ratcliff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the quick reply guys.

The ones I am looking at are Barco DP1200.

What exactly should be looked at that indicate that it is up to date, board-wise, etc.

Also, are these machines HDCP compliant? We do a lot of classics using Blu-ray and DVD.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 04-26-2013 03:52 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The DP1200 is a nice machine, and it does not have coolant inside, something less to look after!

Make sure your TI board is Type 5 (Gore and HDCP).

Have the projector tested by someone that knows what is doing, make sure that the optics inside are in good conditions, run full chip test patterns to make sure everything is ok. Then run the machine with the lamp at maximum for 1h displaying a black pattern to make sure all is fine.

Finally make sure all the software is up to date.

Someone else may give you more details regarding hardware versions which I am not aware of.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-26-2013 06:24 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not dead simple to tell what interface board they have. If you open the card cage you can tell if it's an early one, you won't see one of the cards enclosed/covered in a solid black block. If you do see that you have a newer version but it might not be a DHCP version. I recommend NOT removing a black block "Gore Board" card to look for a version number: I don't think it's on there and you can disable the card very easily by mishandling the card - the outside is covered with sensing material to detect tampering. You will need the Dallas key to reauthorize the projector after looking in the card cage.
I believe you can use the TI DLP cinema control program to read the interface card version. You can download this from the Barco technical website, you have to apply for a login.

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Andrew Thomas
Master Film Handler

Posts: 273
From: Pearland, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2012


 - posted 04-26-2013 07:14 PM      Profile for Andrew Thomas   Email Andrew Thomas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you can get an idea of what will keep you safe for the next 6-8 years by looking at what was required to get a previously installed series 1 system approved for VPF programs. GORE board is probably an essential update if the projector does not already have it.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 04-27-2013 04:27 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The interface type is shown on the communicator, if you click on Diagnostic - Actual - Detailed status.

The type of the board should be listed under Interface Board Type

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Justin West
Master Film Handler

Posts: 271
From: Peoria, IL, USA
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 05-07-2013 11:57 AM      Profile for Justin West   Email Justin West   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a friend whose series 1 projector died. It reboots to green tail lights (Barco) but there is no power to the card cage that Dave references (LEDs are not lit) thus no error codes are listed on the communicator screen. He has not removed cage or boards inside the cage (including gore board) but power supply board outside it has a popped fuse...and he can remove the ps board. No back light on any of the function keys, he is really hesitant to pull cards out of cage for risk if ruining or deactivating them. He is also hesitant to pull the entire cage. He could pull the plug to that cage, then replace the fuse on the power supply board, reinsert ps board, then power up just to see if the short might be somewhere else besides with a board in the cage...any other ideas? Thanks! [Confused]

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-07-2014 07:14 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 457 days since the last post.


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