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Author Topic: 3D with barco dp2k 10s
Jure Maticic
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: Ljubljana / Slovenija
Registered: Sep 2012


 - posted 04-11-2013 02:44 AM      Profile for Jure Maticic   Email Jure Maticic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone,

I'm pretty certain many of you have had experience with the Barco dp2k 10s by now. I anyone running 3D on this projector? What are the results .... is there enough light and on what size screen?

Jure

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Marin Zorica
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 648
From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia
Registered: May 2003


 - posted 04-18-2013 02:06 PM      Profile for Marin Zorica   Email Marin Zorica   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure there is enought light if the screen is small up to 6m....and depending on 3D system used.

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Fred L West
Film Handler

Posts: 24
From: Concrete, Wa USA
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted 04-22-2013 05:27 PM      Profile for Fred L West   Email Fred L West   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We just installed our new Barco dp2k 10s with Dolby 3D along with a new 750 processor. The system and sound are all great, everything meets spec on our 20' screen. Our customers are raving about the picture and sound, couldn't be happier.

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2075
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 04-22-2013 11:07 PM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could you let us know screen type, bulb size and light level in 2D and 3D?

I have someone in mind for one of these.

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Peter Hall
Master Film Handler

Posts: 304
From: London, UK
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-23-2013 07:19 AM      Profile for Peter Hall   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Hall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Sam

We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL ! Turning the current right down to 50A (the machine telling us "the lamp is off", which is wasnt !) we still got 14FL. Zooming up to a pretend 15m screen, 75A gave 15FL. Curious to see the other small chip machines' results...

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Jon Augustyn
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Cary, NC, US
Registered: May 2013


 - posted 07-27-2013 02:37 AM      Profile for Jon Augustyn     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lots of questions...

Is the Dolby 3D wheel inside the projector an option on this model?

Does Dolby 3D work with alternative content (Bluray 3D)?

When is the real/final IMS due in the 10sx?

Is it any more difficult to get good on screen DMD convergence because of the smaller chip size? Is it normal to converge the DMDs as part of a standard installation?

Is the lower spec sequential contrast ratio (1850) noticeably inferior to the higher spec 2000:1 on the larger boxes? Does the ansi/intrascene contrast ratio also suffer on the compact projectors?

Does anyone know the BTU rating? I see it listed in the specs for the larger boxes, but not for this one.

Does Barco have controls to compensate for bulb aging on this model?

How realistic is the 9,000 lumen rating? Is that calibrated lumens?

As an aside, I thought DCI required 2,000:1 minimum sequential contrast ratio from a projector for compliance, no?

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-27-2013 04:52 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the 3D wheel is inside the projector as the other models. It should work with alternative 3D IF you have an external 3D box like the one sold by RealD.
Never tried the convergence on a S model, but with the extenders I'm sure it's as easy as any other models. Because it's so easy, I usually check the convergence on Barcos at the end of the installation and amend it if it's off.
I don't think the slightly lower contrast is an issue here. Mostly the contrast is reduced by the room itself. Unless your auditorium is a pitch black room, you will never measure the published contrast unless you point your colour meter to the projector itself. Any slightly reflective surface in the room will decrease your ANSI contrast.
Yes, all BARCO do have CLO to compensate for lamp aging.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3684
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 07-27-2013 08:46 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep. DLPs do not have an overwhelming sequential contrast, but the difference between 1850 and 2000 is not visible.

Their ANSI contrast is usually top notch, also for the S2k models.

I also wondered about DCIs 1:2000 requirement and S2k compliance. I guess, they are taking that not too serious ;-)

- Carsten

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-28-2013 03:57 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just for fun, try and measure the sequential contrast in an average room, and you'll have a laugh. You'll laugh even harder if you try to measure the ANSI!

If you think that in the UK most of the cinemas keep their house lights on during the show, well, you don't really need to worry about contrast ratio!

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 07-29-2013 10:55 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can confirm that adjusting the convergence on a 10S is indeed just as easy as in the other models.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5196
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-29-2013 02:36 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So what is the maximum scope width that these units will light up and still meet DCI lumen specs? We have a 40ft screen & would sure like to get away with a less expensive, all-in one box.

And they will do 3D? I thought the smaller Barcos and Christie minis were 2D only. Two of the cinemas I work are non-theatrical. I am not sure we would ever be able to afford a RealD 3D system since my understanding is that they have a rental agreement requiring you to pay an annual fee, yes? For the few times we would need to run an older 3D title, it would only be for a few days run over a weekend, never a full weekly engagement for as for first run. Are any of the 3D systems available for outright purchase where you buy it and you own it, or do all of them require some sort of recurring license scheme?

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 07-30-2013 04:13 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL !
Peter: accounting for bulb aging, that's just enough for 2D for you then.

With Dolby 3D and your current screen, though, you'd need about 45 foot-lamberts in 2D to reach 4.5 fL in 3D... And they're already pushing for 7 fL! For any 3D system to be bright enough, you'd need to install a high-gain screen, which would mean severe hotspotting problems (particularly bad if your screen is not curved).

Frank: you'd probably be able to reach 14 fL - or close - in 2D for the whole life of the bulb, if your screen gain is at least 1.4. I'd forget about 3D, though. You'd need a silver screen (which would screw up your 2D image as well) and RealD XL (which has problems of its own).

Dolby 3D and various active systems such as XpanD or Volfoni are simply sold to exhibitors with no license fees, but there's no way past the fact that 9000 lumens won't get you far, no matter which 3D system you choose.

Bottom line: These are not really 3D machines, unless we're talking about small screening rooms.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12089
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-30-2013 05:27 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL !
Sorry...I've got to cry BS on this one. The 10S is a 9000 lumen MAX projector. a 10m wide MATTE white (gain 1.0 or, more likely .9) is going to top out at maybe 16fL and that is without color correction, allowing for port glass loss or...most importantly, any loss in lamp aging. Who measured this screen to be matte-white? What meter were you using? When was it last calibrated? Where you measuring with a full white screen or was it masked down so as to only expose the 2-degree area that your meter should be measuring?

Anyone specifying this projector beyond an 8.8m (29-feet) screen is doing a disservice. Even then, it is going to run hard and by the end of the lamp life, the light output will be significantly below specified output. It is the math of it all. Furthermore, when one runs a lamp in the upper-end of its range, the light output falls MUCH more dramatically (especially true for Osram, by the way).

While going to a gain screen might be a way to stretch available light, it will cause it to fall out of specification as any gain higher than 1.3 on a flat screen (or even the 1:20 screens) will have too much fall off to the sides.

These are small screen projectors (Christie and NEC included)...they should be used on the smaller screens only or you really are compromising the picture. Remember, the light output specification is after color correction...your meter should be showing .314/.351 while it is showing 14fL. Ideally, you should be running a peak-white test pattern from your SERVER while making this measurement as it accounts for the full signal path of the image.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 07-30-2013 05:45 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Antti Nayha
Frank: you'd probably be able to reach 14 fL - or close - in 2D for the whole life of the bulb, if your screen gain is at least 1.4.
Please disregard that. Being lazy before my morning coffee, I didn't do the actual math - I just extrapolated from Peter's results, which are a bit dubious indeed as pointed out by Steve above. Shame on me.

The gain would have to be considerably higher than 1.4, and I don't recommend such screens either.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 07-30-2013 12:35 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Where you measuring with a full white screen or was it masked down so as to only expose the 2-degree area that your meter should be measuring?
Never thought there was a sensible difference between full screen and a little square, I'll check next time.
What is the difference in your experience?

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