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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Upgrading 2K to 4K (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Upgrading 2K to 4K
Lincoln Spector
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Albany, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted 03-01-2013 06:33 PM      Profile for Lincoln Spector   Author's Homepage   Email Lincoln Spector   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When a local art house went digital last year, the manager said they bought Barco 2K projectors that can be upgraded to 4K.

How common is that, and how much do those upgrades cost?

Lincoln

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17662
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-01-2013 06:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Its easy. 10 minutes to swap the lensing and light engine, and then another 5-20 minutes to rebuild the formats (depending on how precise or sloppy the installer is).

For cost you need to check with your dealer. It isn't particularly cheap.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-01-2013 08:52 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So you are saying that (presuming the packaging is unwrapped but the equipment is running 2K)...you can have a theatre converted to 4K in 30-minutes...including recalibrating color, screen and lens files for all formats (presume at least 6)?

This I've got to see (in person...don't want no sped up videos!).

In truth, especially on a Barco...it is a relatively fast operation for anyone that knows how to pull/reinstall a light engine.

Odds are, you will need to ad an IMB to replace the existing mediablock too (or perhaps at least get a license, depending on make/model).

From what I can tell, Barco has the cheapest, by far, on the 2K->4K upgrade path and NEC has the cheapest 4K/2K difference on new projectors.

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 03-01-2013 10:37 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Well in talking about Barco specifically, I can pull a light engine and install the 3D wheel and have it re-installed in 20 minutes (yes I have timed it), so yeah. Just swapping a light engine won't take any time at all. Lens files are super fast and easy too. Colors only take a few minutes. What's the mathematical issue here? Granted this is assuming all tools and such are unpacked and ready to go. If you want to add that sort of time we're still talking under an hour.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-01-2013 11:35 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is faster than I do it.

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-02-2013 12:03 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure it's only because I've installed so many of those Dolby 3D kits. My first one wasn't exactly timely at all. [Wink]

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-02-2013 03:59 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would never rush when unplugging those tiny plastic connectors from the backplane, not even after 10.000 times! Particularly the ones by the side of the vane, where you don't have a good grip with your hands. But this is just me.

Don't you need to run a sw upgrade when swapping a light engine?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3680
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 03-02-2013 05:44 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lincoln Spector
How common is that, and how much do those upgrades cost?
It is quite expensive compared to a new machine, so I guess it is not really common to do it.

I have seen quotes in the 30.000€ range - new light engine, maybe new IMB/server/mod/, 4k license, and if you want to do it right, a 4k lens (depending on your existing screen and lens, you may need a new longer lens anyway). Plus labor.

Doesn't really make sense, unless your existing 2k light engine would need to be exchanged for some reason anyway.

- Carsten

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-02-2013 06:24 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've done MANY Dolby 3D upgrades on the Barcos...I've even swapped out light engines having to move the Dolby 3D wheel when a suitable light engine was not available when I needed it.

I don't find it hard or particularly time consuming but not as fast as you claim.

Marco...there is a difference between working fast and rough handling. I highly doubt that Brad is just grabbing the cables and yanking.

My slowest part is probably fitting the color wheel since the integrating rod is exposed (and ALWAYS dirty...on anybody's projector). Also, mounting that heat sensor to the colorwheel can be annoying (like a Simplex sound head lateral guide roller bearing retainer...the one with the three screws). I also dress the 3D cable a bit...sometimes even putting it in the spiral wrap.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2536
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 03-02-2013 08:17 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, I didn't mean that for sure! I was talking of myself, I feel those plugs are so fragile I always take my time doing it.
That said, if I'm not distracted by anything else and not considering the time spent opening and closing the projector, the bare time I need to remove a Barco light engine and to put it back with a Dolby wheel is 45m-ish.

On top of that I need a few minutes to test the projector *before* removing the light engine (check with a white pattern that everything is ok: if you find something wrong AFTER you've replaced the wheel, how do you know it wasn't like that before?), opening/closing time, and software upgrades.

And as steve says, the moment when the integrator rod is exposed is the slowest one

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2079
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-02-2013 09:12 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Barco "B" lenses are all 2K/4K. Unless you are now at or close to a zoom limit you shouldn't need a new lens. The lens throw ratio ranges are slightly different for 4K (both ranges are marked on lenses) because the 4K chips are slightly larger.
The cost is rather stunning especially if you have a non-4K server to upgrade to IMB. Probably Barco gives you a refund on the 2K light engine but the price is definitely high regardless.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-02-2013 01:39 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They are quasi-4K lenses. These lenses were designed with 2K MTFs so you are likely not getting as much of the 4K resolution as a properly designed 4K. If you check InVision, you'll see they now have lenses designed specifically for 4K. I believe Schneider designs their lenses with 4K MTFs.

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-02-2013 11:16 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, there is enough slack on the temp sensor to connect it to the wheel assembly before attaching to the integrator rod. You'll save yourself a few minutes and some frustration if you connect that first next time.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12083
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-03-2013 05:02 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the tip. I'll admit, I tend to route those delicate wires so they don't touch the integrating rod at all and when I'm done...there is very little slack left...just enough so there is no stress on the wires.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-02-2013 02:35 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm told that upgrading my Barco DP2K-32B to 4K will have a negative impact on contrast ratio. Is this true?

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