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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Barco Vs Nec (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Barco Vs Nec
Phil Ilczyszyn
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: Arvada Co USA
Registered: Nov 2012


 - posted 02-04-2013 02:39 PM      Profile for Phil Ilczyszyn   Email Phil Ilczyszyn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anybody have DP2K10Sx or NC900C YET?Can any body give me the pros & cons of each projector?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3865
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 02-04-2013 03:08 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco has more light ouput. NEC has two fault-redundant lamps.

I hear some people already have got their NC900C - but firmware is not yet finished, it's preliminary, not all functions enabled.

Also the Doremi IMS it not ready for shipping yet - but that would be the same for Barco as well, as the Sx should use the same IMS.

- Carsten

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Tom Bert
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 100
From: Belgium
Registered: Apr 2010


 - posted 02-05-2013 09:54 AM      Profile for Tom Bert   Email Tom Bert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco:
- Xenon light: more stable and safe than UHP, as well as lower TCO (NEC)
- Lamp house and modularity for quick and easy maintenance
- 9000lm: double of NEC
- all 3D supported: including Dolby 3D
- Eco Mode for lowest consumption in standbye mode

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8353
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-16-2013 02:01 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And no lens files yet available for the 900C .. but coming over the horizon.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2565
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-16-2013 05:27 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally I would not consider any projector with UHP lamps inside as a suitable choice suitable for D-Cinema.

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Oliver Pasch
Film Handler

Posts: 53
From: Europe
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 02-16-2013 08:06 AM      Profile for Oliver Pasch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
@Marco: any particular reason why, if I may ask?

Both high pressure mercury lamp driven projectors have passed DCI certification...

http://www.dcimovies.com/compliant_equipment/KEIO-NEC-NC900C-20121123.html

http://www.dcimovies.com/compliant_equipment/KEIO-SONY-SRX-R515-20130115.html

Cheers

O.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2565
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-16-2013 09:00 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Because UHP Mercury lamps feature the following:
- Several minutes to warm up and to show white light.
- Huge colour shift over life, particularly after 100-ish hours
- Huge light drop over life, estimated 50%
- 20% light ouput drop after calibration

Unless there is a colour meter inside the projector to compensate for light drift, I would never ever think of a mercury vapour bulb as a source of light for a critical environment as D-Cinema

That said, I am sure that once calibrated the picture will look "good enough". But considering the light coming off a similar machine is waaay off DCI W/P, I would not be surprised - actually I am expecting it - to find a 1-2 years old machine drifted from 0.341 to something like 0.270 (measured on a similar machine with no calibration) - which is noticeable to the untrained eye

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1885
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-16-2013 09:04 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
And no lens files yet available for the 900C .. but coming over the horizon.
Huh??? How are you supposed to set the lens position?

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 480
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-16-2013 12:02 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Ken Lackner
Huh??? How are you supposed to set the lens position?
Everything is motorized but no memory to create a macro. It is said this will be addressed in a future software update.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8353
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-17-2013 12:11 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Marco Giustini
Several minutes to warm up and to show white light.

You basically have a mercury street lamp in that unit. When the bulb(s) fire up with the dowser open, you see a nice blue image that eventually brightens up.

Thus, I bet that the bulb(s) has to remain on all the time during intermission time so you don't get this 'street light' syndrome at each start up.

You think that Ushio and similar could have made bulbs for these units, but also notice that the 900C doesn't have any form of external exhaust connections - just a oversized home video projector... prob making the use of xenon bulbs an impossibility. At least, the BARCO uses xenon lamps to ensure stability in light output.

Now, have to see how the SONY SRX-R515 can do in this affordable market.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 480
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-17-2013 10:30 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
the 900C doesn't have any form of external exhaust connections - just a oversized home video projector...
Now, have to see how the SONY SRX-R515 can do in this affordable market.

The NC900 can run on 110 AC making it a nice alternative for smaller houses. It throws a great picture.

All reports so far from those who have demoed the Sony 515 have been positive. Has this shipped yet in the US?

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2565
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-17-2013 02:48 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Any machine freshly calibrated will throw a nice picture on screen. What I am arguing here is the consistency of colour accuracy over time. I am familiar with those lamps and over time they are massively changing their colour temperature.

The 515 has a main advantage though: 8000:1 (ON/OFF) contrast ratio that DLP simply can't match.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17695
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-17-2013 02:53 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's an anonymous question submitted for everyone regarding the NEC 900C projector.

quote: NEC manual
This projector is equipped with a notch filter that has been optimized for projection in a movie theater. The image can be made brighter by removing the notch filter. Note that the projector does not comply with the Color Gamut in the DCI standards in that case.
Basically as I understand it, there is a dummy bracket that replaces the notch filter if you want more light. So the big question is...is NEC claiming brightness based upon that notch filter IN or OUT??? For DCI compliance, the notch filter must be IN (which means a darker picture and also possibly not DCI compliant in terms of brightness depending on the scenario).

If anyone has direct knowledge on this, please correct me if I am misinterpreting. Likewise, we must assume all brightness readings are taken when the projector is not DCI compliant.

Also, does this mean we cannot precisely calibrate the colors on the NEC 900S?

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 480
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 02-17-2013 04:12 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My understanding the spec is with yellow notch filter removed. From my limited time with the NEC when in D-cineme color space the notch filter is automatically engaged. You can turn the filter off, the image then takes on a reddish hue when projecting cinema content.
The projector offers the typical color calibration procedure as Ive seen on the Barcos. Alternative content when passing through the Showvault/IMB/IMS is converted to D-cinema color space by the Doremi therefore requiring the use of the notch filter. If you disengage the filter during alternative content a strange odd color effect takes place with missing colors, you must use this filter. You could bypass the filter if bypassing the IMB using a separate DVI card.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3865
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 02-17-2013 07:31 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So far, NEC has not yet published any brightness specs, so it's hard to say wether the yellow-notch is counted in or not. What they give is screen size with DCI colourspace.

'Up to 30 ft./9m@14ft-L in DCI color (1.8 gain screen)'

And that calculates to something like 4500-5000 Lumens. Which is not much, but for a small screen, this is still a bargain at around 30.000US$ incl. server.

The Chrisitie Solaria One+ also has the option to disable DCI whitepoint for an increase in brightness. That said - probably ALL DCI projectors will be brighter before/without DCI whitepoint calibration. Naturally, the OHPs will lose more light when calibrated than XENONs do.

The UHP lamps for the Sony are manufactured by USHIO. I don't know if it is fair to judge them based on experience with previous UHPs. I have seen large differences in brightness and color shift with different UHPs.

Sony does not promote mixing lamps of different ages in the 515 - they just promote redundance in case of a lamp failure. If the existing lamp set can then not keep the necessary brightness, the whole set will have to be replaced. The Sony has a very complex lamp steering mechanism in the 515 - I like the 515 performance, the contrast is excellent - I just wonder where the economical benefit is compared to a much 'simpler' single XENON block.

- Carsten

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