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Author Topic: New small digital cinema - effective solution (?)
Rasto Marko
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Banska Stiavnica, Slovakia, Europe
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted 01-25-2013 08:17 AM      Profile for Rasto Marko   Email Rasto Marko   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello guys,

I would like to ask you for a help.
We are operating one small cinema in Eastern Europe and we want to rebuild it to digital one. As I am not very technically skilled (as well as English speaking  ), I am looking for some professionals to help me.
Our cinema is very small (150 seats), with 6 x 3 m screen. We are looking for a cheap, but effective solution. We have got this offer:

DCI:
D – cinema projector: Barco DP2k-12C
Server: GDC SX-200A

Sound:
Audio processor: Dolby CP750
Repro box L,C, R: JBL 4722N
Repro box LFE: JBL 4641
Repro box surround: JBL 2516
End amlplifier: Crown XLS1000

Video scaler: Kinoton DMS DC1

Do you see this as possible working? Are there any weaknesses or things to be aware of? I would really appreciate any kind of help. Thank you in advance!

Rasto

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 01-25-2013 10:11 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The barco and gdc will work, you'll probably be using 2kW lamps. The LCR fronts are ok for something with 150 seats. If choosing, i would opt for the biamp version tho.

I think a single 18" sub might not be enough, try to get at least 4642.

The crowns are probably there in multiples. Probably you can run xls 400s and 600s for most channels. the 1000 is enough to feed a couple of the bigger dual subs.

CP750 means no 35mm film capability. If you're ok with that, then ok.

What is the state of your screen?

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Rasto Marko
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Banska Stiavnica, Slovakia, Europe
Registered: Jan 2013


 - posted 01-29-2013 06:45 AM      Profile for Rasto Marko   Email Rasto Marko   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello,

thank you for your answer. The offer for the new screen is Harkness - Matt Plus MP.

I really appreciate your answer, now I feel the offer is ok and it will work. Thank you very much!

Rasto

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 01-29-2013 09:38 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You'll be using the 2kW lamps then. Probably at minimum current.

Re,

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3868
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-30-2013 08:04 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rasto - don't know what they charge you for the Barco/GDC combination - but for a small screen like this, you may also consider one of the new S2k machines with integrated server - like the Barco DP2k-10sx, NEC NC-900C, or Christie SolariaOne.

Ask around which of these is actually available in your area.

The Barco 10sx with the integrated Doremi server is a compact yet flexible option.

The Dolby750 is not the best, but the most cost effective choice. If you don't need 35mm sound, or continue to use another existing CP with that capability, that's okay.

- Carsten

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Oliver Pasch
Film Handler

Posts: 53
From: Europe
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 01-30-2013 08:15 AM      Profile for Oliver Pasch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess this requires more differentiation between cheap and efficient.

Not sure whether a decision for 2K in 2013 is efficient. Have a look...
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118064432/

Cheers

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3868
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-30-2013 08:20 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Oliver - sorry for not mentioning the 515 here ;-)

- Carsten

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 01-30-2013 03:19 PM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, new machines are an option for this. But who will say now:
"That is ok, there are no problems I see using this technology."

It hasn't been proven, it will take some time. Of course, it might be an ok choice. It might. I might not. Who knows.

The C series is pretty common in europe. Many people use it. Parts are interchangeable. People have experience with it. Known issues have been more or less resolved or at least pointed out, and people who service them will know what is going on (usually).

Regarding the 4k/48. I wait for the day when this is standard. I truly wish 2k would get downscaled distribution. It is not comparable to decent 35mm. But will it be this year? No. In 5 years? No. Maybe 10. Maybe. There have been what, 40, 50 movies released in 4k? There is a huge market for 4k? There have been how many 48fps movies out? How many servers/imb combos can playback 4k @ 4k/48fps.

Another question is content availability. We had 1 4k title in the past 2 years of dci up for grabs here. But we run mostly arthouse and independent fare. The amount of 4k material in this sector is nonexistent. Yes, might change in the coming years, but the lower end of the indie market is just now coming to grips with an HD workflow, they can run/edit all their materials on their fancy mac computers and have a blast. The computing and esp. storage needs for a 4k workflow are larger and not something 'everyone' can afford nowadays. Another 'Maybe' is the RED revolution. Yes, 'Maybe' it will work. Depends on many things. The end customer is not one of them however.

On the Sony note, sure the 515 seems like everyone's cup of tea nowadays. It's 4k. It's competitively priced. It has some nice nice features. Still, its completely new. We'll see how it performs. How UHMs preform over time. The fact that its a 150kg beast might be a turnoff. I am however as many others, a potential client.

No way to know. efficient or not, depends on what you'll be doing with the equipment. If it is USED efficiently, great. If its bought efficiently with no intention of efficient use of it's features, then how can it be bought efficiently?

And who knows what the future brings, right now we're all talking (again) about 4k. LAst years 48fps question is almost nonexistent. 11.1 sound or whatever is on very few 'to do' lists, or orders. However, more and more is being done to make the cinema image go as quickly and shortly to other platforms. More is being done in order to get images to cinemas in a form closer to the broadcast norm, possibly in the same codec. Noone is really concerned about that, right. More is being done to ease the way to get the cinema experience out of the cinema... That is the future.

hmm. Ok, i'll shut up a little, rant over [Smile]

Anyhow. Quoting for a new cinema install, i personally would opt for a technology which has been used and proven. That's what kept decent 35mm projection alive all these years. It is what can keep standard digital projection alive for a couple more. What will come next is anyones guess. Lasers? Thin sheets of oled? 5 voice of god channels? Demolition of most cinemas? Let's find out.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8353
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 01-31-2013 03:36 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
NEC has a new unit out - the 900C "all-in-one" .. with projector and built in media block.

Unit uses two, 350w metal hylide (no xenon) bulbs, no external exhaust needed, and will do 3D up to a 30ft screen. Unit weighs less than 100lbs.

Check this out with your dealer, or installer.

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 01-31-2013 04:57 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The NEC is rated at 4500 lumen. With new lamps.

No way it will do 3D on 30ft. It can do 2D on 25ft with a 1.5+ gain screen. Barely.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 01-31-2013 09:15 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
4500 lumens, wow. I thought it was 7000, which isn’t that much to begin with…

Where did you get the figure, btw?

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 01-31-2013 10:20 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manice.org - Differences between new small projectors

Of course noone would like to mention in any spec sheet it is only 4500 lumen. But also, if you calculate it from their specs:
quote:
Light Output

Up to 30 ft./9m@14ft-L in DCI color (1.8 gain screen)

It comes to just about 4000 lumen center, for a 1.85 screen.

It's an honest number still. You see many dlp video projectors boasting 7-9.000 lumen with two uhp lamps.

Still, would not recommend for anything more than 6m matt white screen, operating at max power there tho.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3868
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 01-31-2013 04:02 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Official NEC spec is 4500 Lumens as far as I know. Peak, average, preliminary, whatever...

There is a discussion on a german forum where someone has access to an NC900C and NC1200C. He said NC900C is slightly brighter than NC1200 with 2kW Xenon. But probably brandnew lamps in NC900C and used 2kW in NC1200.

Measured 10fl on 6m screen through DepthCue and Pol-Glasses, and with DCI colour correction filter in lightpath. Which wouldn't be bad at all.

Not official, but might give an indication. Sure these lamps will lose light more quickly than Xenon.

- Carsten

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8353
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 01-31-2013 10:50 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Carsten Kurz
Sure these lamps will lose light more quickly than Xenon
What makes this projector unique is that a module can be changed out while the other module is in operation.

If it's like the Christie Roadrunner L6 units, it contains two lamp modules, but one can use either one or both modules (maybe for 3D), or rotate between the two each day.

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