Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Setting Light Output on Barco Series 2 projectors (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Setting Light Output on Barco Series 2 projectors
Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-02-2012 05:19 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings,

I'm Having some problems with my barco projectors. The installers did not set the light output correctly so all of my lamps are running at maximum power, even though they all have very few hours on them. Since I know xenon bulbs put out their rated light with less power when new, and then need turned up over time to maintain that light, im burning up my bulbs. Im already having striking problems, even on the smaller screens with only 20% of the lamp life used up.

I've been dinking around with the barco software looking for settings. I found the light output, and most of the lamps are putting out 14-16 fl, and from what I know the Digital cinema Standard is 12 fl.

If I change it to CLO mode in the software, all of them are set at 16, with the exception of my 2 larger screens that are set at 255 for some reason.

Would it be as simple as changing the target light output to 12fl on the software then saving the file? Or would I need to get a light meter and verify whats on screen and calibrate some other things?

Ive noticed they are too bright since the beginning, im getting washed out blacks which is the most noticeable. A couple weeks after the install was done I started having problems with various things, that led me to believe it was a rushed half baked job. Then I started having striking problems, and looked into it and noticed the lamps at maximum power. The installers didn't even get some of the maskings set up right so I had keystoning to take care of.

I appreciate any help.

Thanks

 |  IP: Logged

Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2167
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-02-2012 05:49 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a few steps to this:

You need to create a lcs file for each format. This is a reference light level reading, made with a calibrated light meter.
Note that the projectors come from the factory with a non-calibrated lcs file. This is so you can adjust the lamp: with no lcs active, the brightness will read zero all the time... that makes using the lamp adjustment function quite impossible. This factory lcs setting is not your screen brightness, same with the ft-l reading in status or lamp output: there has to be a reference reading in an active lcs file for it be meaningful. The projector doesn't look at the screen, it has a light sensor in the light engine.

Once you have your measured and set lcs files you activate the correct lcs file in each format macro.

Then in "lamp mode" in each macro you select CLO mode and set your target Ft-L.

Assuming your lamp is within its adjustment range, the projector will adjust lamp power to keep the screen brightness at the set level.

 |  IP: Logged

Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2565
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 12-03-2012 02:58 AM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
you shouldn't have stike problems at 20% of lamp's life. Running lamps at 100% is not hurting them, it's the opposite that is not good for them.

 |  IP: Logged

Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 12-03-2012 04:30 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The brightness standard for the digital era remains at 14 fL, measured in the center of the screen. (For film it used to be 16 fL without film in the projector – the slight opacity of the film base would drop that to 14 fL.)

When setting up the CLO, it’s not uncommon to give it a little overhead and set the target at 16 fL instead of 14. Depending on your screen gain, viewing angles and the accuracy of the initial calibration, the brightness may actually be closer to 14 for most viewers. And the difference is not that huge anyway.

Are you sure your larger screens are actually set to 255 fL in CLO mode? Or are they possibly set up to use the ”Normal mode”, where a slider value of 255 simply means ”run the lamp at full power all the time”?

If all your lamps - even those set to CLO - are running at 100% power all the time already at 20% of warranty life, it would seem to me that you need bigger bulbs. But before jumping to conclusions, you should check if the calibration was done correctly. The Harkness Digital Screen Checker is a nice budget light meter.

As Marco said, though, your lamp strike problems are probably not related at all. Is your exhaust system powerful enough? How do your lamp temperatures look?

Also, are you running B or C series Barcos? Some B projectors have been known to have some trouble with the signal pulse generator (SPG), causing strike problems. There’s an easy service procedure which may or may not help – see the Barco InfoT 959, or PM me if you don’t have access to the Barco support site.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-03-2012 02:50 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The installers Did have a light meter, and took measurements.

But not a single projector has a LCS file in any macros. With our screen size and throw in our smaller theaters, a 2000W bulb should be sufficent to light the screen, not even at full power. The movies are very bright at have washed out blacks like I said, and the whites are blinding. I just did some quick math to drop the bulb power by 20% in a couple theaters to see what it looked like. The movies look alot better and seem more film like.

Ill look into getting a light meter(have to talk to the boss man). If anyone has any knowledge(formula or whatever) on what bulbs should be used in my setup, here's my screen sizes and throws.

Largest
Throw :66 feet
Largest screen size: 19'x43'8"
DP2k-20C running a 4000W bulb, but I have a 3000W im putting in tonight

Second largest
Throw:57 feet
Largest screen size: 15.4'x35'6"
DP2K-20C 4000W bulb, will be replaced with 3000W when the current lamp reaches its end

Mid size
Throw:51 feet
Screen size at largest: 16'x28'3"
DP2K-12C 2000W bulb

Smallest
Throw:44 feet
Screen at largest:16'x28'3"
DP2k-12C 2000W bulb

And the larger screens and one smaller screen were set to 255 in CLO mode.

There may be a power problem also, that prevents the lamps from striking. I had a similar problem with the film equipment. Sometimes they would strike on the first go, EVERY TIME, other times it would take 5-6 times, even on a bulb with minimal hours that was run at the proper power.

I kinda got throw into this, I don't know the status of a service contract(as af as I know we don't have one) so Im trying my best to get these running properly.

Thanks
Paul

 |  IP: Logged

Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 12-03-2012 03:25 PM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two important factors when calculating optimal lamp size:
1) screen gain
2) are you also running 3D, and if so, which system?

 |  IP: Logged

Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1548
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 12-03-2012 03:51 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wonder if you've got some 'suspect' lamps with those Barco projectors?

There have been a few issues recently, you should have had a letter.

 |  IP: Logged

Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2565
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 12-03-2012 04:41 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the wattages you suggest looks fine, assuming a 1.0 gain screen.
A colour meter would be recommended to set the LSC files and let the projector handle the light. In the meantime you may want to reduce the power on all flat formats, it sounds you have too much light in Flat at maximum power, which is very normal if your system has proper light levels in scope with some headroom left.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-03-2012 05:05 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Screen gain is 1.0 I believe on all of them, except the largest screen and one of the medium sized screens. They have silver screens. Not sure on the gain with those. The silver screens were used with Technicolor 3D, and now we have RealD XL systems in both auditoriums.

I just got a light meter ordered so I should be able to properly get the levels here in the near future.

"Lamp Temperature" according to the barco software in the smaller theaters is around 40C, with the 2 larger screens just above 50C.

I havent been notified of any lamp problems. I got a mix and match of brands. Im having problems with both osram and ushio bulbs, both 4K and 2K.

Just had another one fail to strike, first time for this one.

Thanks
Paul

 |  IP: Logged

Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2167
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-03-2012 06:06 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Something is fishy with the installation. The installer hopefully calibrated the color but obviously did not calibrate the brightness. I would check that there are relevant 3D and 2D MCGD files dated around the time of your installation: there will be a "nominal" MCGD file as well dated well before the install, part of the original projector base clone installed by Barco. If you don't have these MCGD files present and called in the macros, your colour has not been calibrated either.
It makes no sense to use CLO mode without LSC files, regardless of the number you set them to. You need LSC files to use CLO mode. It's pointless without them.
With top (or bottom, or top & bottom) masking the difference between flat and scope brightness is minimal and just one LSC file for 2D and one for 3D would do OK. With side masking you need flat and scope LSC files. For a 3D screen you definitely need 2D and 3D LSC files.
The projector macros in the projector base clone have LSC file entries, pointing to nonexistent files (to be created on installation) which brings up a yellow triangle when the macro is executed. There's a factory LSC file as well , "1.LSC" I think, which allows lamp alignment. As long as no other file is called, this should be active - but sometimes the projector forgets it (during firmware upgrades for example) which makes lamp alignment a challenge. If you look in installation/advanced/lamp output it should show the active LSC file at the bottom somewhere.
The setup you describe is not uncommon on projectors installed by techs who have not taken the Barco installation training course.

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-03-2012 06:52 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of the projectors have the LCS files named 2D. But the rest of the are the default "1".

I went through a few macros, and they don't have an "activate LCS file" in the string of commands. I can add one, but there is not one present in the few I looked at. Im getting a light meter soon, so I should be able to get this solved. Im going to mess with a few tonight and add an LCS file that I edited earlier today to a couple screens and run some content and see how it looks.

Its all sorts of messed up. They may not have calibrated the color either. One of them appears to have an over saturation of red.

The barco tech school is on my list of things to do.

Whats the default setting of fL for the calibration files? Some of them are at 12, but others were upwards of 20. SO maybe they did edit them, but didn't make a new one. Regardless the macro isn't calling for one anyway.

 |  IP: Logged

Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2167
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-04-2012 06:17 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's no way to tell what the 1.LCS file is set at. I suppose at some Barco test bay with a Barco test lamp on whatever they use for a screen, it was calibrated... or they just pulled a number out of their heads and saved it. All it's good for is aligning the lamp. I have had a few trouble calls where the operator couldn't align the lamp because the displayed output on the alignment screen was zero, they just had to save a random guess LCS number to get that function to work.
Colour setup is easy but you need a colour meter, the cheapest available is too expensive for a theatre to justify owning one.
Hopefully you can find a qualified service technician to maintain your projection systems. There are a few regular maintenance jobs that should really be done by trained techs with access to factory support.
Digital systems don't age like film projectors did: they don't generally just get noisier and shakier but keep an image of sorts on screen. Usually when there's a problem they simply refuse to work. Also, right now we're in a strange period - a lot of mandatory security "upgrades" have been issued for projector and server software (and hardware for some S1 projectors and some older servers) but the film distributors haven't done whatever KDM changes that will absolutely require them to be in place to allow playback. Sooner or later they will be required, and systems that have not been kept current will not play encrypted movies. If you don't have trained techs doing periodic maintenance you might get bitten by that.
It's possible to do the maintenance yourself but requires a hefty investment in training course fees and test equipment to do it right.

 |  IP: Logged

Jason Raftery
Film Handler

Posts: 72
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: May 2011


 - posted 12-05-2012 08:33 AM      Profile for Jason Raftery   Email Jason Raftery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete, can you elaborate on the 'suspect' lamps issue? I haven't seen an Info-T on them. Thank you!

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Maxon
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Minden, NE/ Unites States
Registered: Apr 2011


 - posted 12-05-2012 07:16 PM      Profile for Paul Maxon   Email Paul Maxon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im not a "trained tech" by any means. But I think im fairly smart and a quick learner. I've been keeping up with the required updates for DCI compliance myself. If I had the proper equipment im sure I could easily solve my issues. This shouldn't be a problem because the installers should have done all this at the time of installation, so im trying to put the pieces together.

The closest tech is over 3 hours away from my location, so getting anyone to come out and work on this problem overnight so I have no down time is probably out of the question.

 |  IP: Logged

Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3865
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 12-05-2012 07:42 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This most certainly only takes a few minutes to get right. But that doesn't actually increase your chances for a techie stopping by. ;-)
Normally I'd say this is a warranty call.

Wait for the light meter, and then adjust yourself. I assume you have the necessary manuals? The Communicator Guide has a section on light sensor calibration and CLO.

- Carsten

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2018 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.