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Author Topic: Is Scope on the way out? James Waite Film Handler Posts: 52 From: London ON Canada Registered: Nov 2007 posted 10-15-2012 04:24 PM                        Just curious for people's opinion on something. When we go digital we might be moving the projector to a different booth and putting up a new screen. Currently the size of our screen is determined by two things, the width of the area where the screen hangs and the edge of the balcony which limits where the top of the screen can be where the projector is now. We currently have side masking so the screen in bigger in scope than flat. When we move things around we shouldn't have the height limit any more so I'm wondering whether to switch to top and bottom masking. Part of the reason I'm considering this is I think with digital cinema scope may go away? For me the first sign of this was Avengers being Flat, there was at least one other big movie this summer that was flat when it would usually have been scope. This is my reasoning why scope might go away- Most multiplex theatres use top/bottom masking so the image is actually bigger for Flat. It's my understanding that using scope on a Digital projector doesn't make full use of the pixels? It's probably cheaper to do 3D on flat than scope? Even things like Imax being closer to Flat than Scope may come into play. Opinions?  |  IP: Logged Edward Havens Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 614 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 10-15-2012 05:27 PM                     60-75% of the movies I am playing on any given week are 2.39:1. I don't think Scope is going away anytime soon.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-15-2012 06:16 PM                        inasmuch as digital makes any ratio possible (forget standards for the moment) the best bet seems to bey 4 way masking and the biggest screen you can fit.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-15-2012 08:27 PM                     I think scope movies will eventually all but disappear. Think about it... New build cinemas now use letterboxing for their scope and flat is the largest image. TV's are now 16x9. Flat is better quality than scope (generally). I think it's probably the main reason AVENGERS was flat.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-15-2012 11:57 PM                        I think scope will always be an "artistic choice" on the part of the film-maker. Sometimes you just need that wider image. Plus, TVs are getting wider, not narrower.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-16-2012 12:19 AM                     Each year that has gone by since digital has taken over, there have been more and more scope movies. It is NOT going to go away, and it is the one thing that separates a real cinema from tv at home. Top/scissor masking is just replicating tv.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-16-2012 12:27 AM                     If they keep doing builds with 1.85 screens, then there's no difference except the cinema screen's size. Scope movies will be letterboxed on both.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-16-2012 12:35 AM                     Right, and to make matters worse many theaters are saying "to hell with masking" (even though DCI requires it). By eliminating masking, they are making the cinema experience THAT MUCH CLOSER to home video. Sure it is "just my opinion", but mark my words...  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-16-2012 01:57 AM                     Yep, seen scope presentations look like the ones in our homes - "letterboxed" scope presentations. Goodbye maskings for scope presentations. And, what's interesting is that, in the Digital Realm, that the term 'scope, really isn't valid anymore since the image isn't shown through any anamorphic attachments at majority of the DC conversions.  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-16-2012 02:18 AM                     In fact I see more and more scope features - even letterboxed, scope is considered more sexy and 'cinematic' than flat. Don't count on scope disappearing. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 10-16-2012 07:03 AM                        anyone seen a scope television? they must exist.  |  IP: Logged Dennis Benjamin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1445 From: Denton, MD Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-16-2012 07:49 AM                        Speaking of this topic: In regards to digital - a trend that I do not like is trailers for movies that will be released in 'Scope are being re-sized in the letterbox type format when played before a flat movie. I find this really annoying.  |  IP: Logged Frank B. McLaughlin Film Handler Posts: 76 From: Denver, CO Registered: Dec 2011 posted 10-16-2012 08:22 AM                        If you take a close look at "scope" features presented on commercial television note that the 1920x1080 is reformatted to 1440x1080 (after credits) to fill the 16x9 tv screen.  |  IP: Logged Bajsic Bojan Expert Film Handler Posts: 190 From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu Registered: Aug 2008 posted 10-16-2012 09:28 AM                     @PaulGordon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_Cinema_21:9_TV they stopped making them due to lack of interest. @Dennis: not much better than scope trailers of 1.85 movies on 35mm. or vice versa. or 35mm scope trailers in general. the fact is that scope is the inferior format in 2k, so it makes little sense to make it worse by making it bigger, even if that is contrary to the historical reason why scope even started existing.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 10-16-2012 10:08 AM                        Vizio just introduced a 21:9 TV in the US this summer: VIZIO Begins Shipping XVT3D580CM CinemaWide 21:9 HDTV in US (Finally!) -- bigpicturebigsound.com It's an interesting concept, and I don't think it's completely out in left field, but I can't imagine it really taking off either. Philips took the lead, and after a few years, only Vizio followed. However, in a market looking for distinction between products, going wide certainly does that. My favorite part of Vizio's implementation is that they make use of the blank space on a 1.78:1 presentation to show extra information if you wish. For example, you could be watching a football game and have an app showing other scores, etc. This is the example given in the article above. As someone who has a separate movie-watching system, I don't see the need for a 2.4:1 (ok, 2.37:1) screen in my living room, especially if it comes at a price premium. If all other things were equal, I would certainly consider it, as the use of the blank space has some interesting possibilities. Now that I've had a 2.35:1 screen in my home theater for several months, going wide is a distinction between watching TV and watching a movie. I think scope still works well as an aspect ratio, and I would never recommend to a theater to install a flat screen and do top and bottom masking. If you don't feel the image is big enough when showing flat movies on a scope screen, that's a problem with the room, not the aspect ratio. If you have a room which just can't handle the smaller size for flat presentations, then put in a 1.85:1 screen and never show scope movies in that dinky room. Your customers deserve better than a letterboxed presentation.  |  IP: Logged

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