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Author Topic: MIB3: White/Silver DCPs
Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted 05-20-2012 05:58 AM      Profile for Pietro Clarici   Author's Homepage   Email Pietro Clarici   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MIB3 opens on Wed here, and for the first time we've been sent two different DCPs: one is tagged WHT and should be projected on white screens, the other one (SLV) is intended for silver screens.

As usual, no details whatsoever on what the difference is (target luminance and/or color grading?), but it seems counterintuitive: TIP3 measuring and correction should already take the screen surface into account, and it's not like a special DCP can eliminate hotspotting or increase half-gain angles.

Am I missing something? With ghostbusted versions disappearing in favor of a single inventory model, has this happened before in other territories?
Thanks,

Pietro

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Jock Blakley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 218
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted 05-20-2012 09:44 AM      Profile for Jock Blakley   Email Jock Blakley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never heard of this, but wasn't there a 3D feature a while back that had two different grades done - one for around 6.5 foot-lambert presentation and one for something like 2.5 foot-lambert presentation?

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Tom Wienholt
Master Film Handler

Posts: 369
From: Towson, MD, USA
Registered: Dec 2002


 - posted 05-20-2012 09:53 AM      Profile for Tom Wienholt   Email Tom Wienholt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you are talking about Transformers from last summer.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 05-20-2012 10:21 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps the WHT version has digitally added speckle, distorted saturation and dimmed corners, to make all presentations look as identical as possible? [Big Grin]

Seriously, would be interesting to know what the difference is... Keep us posted if you get a chance to compare them?

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Jason Raftery
Film Handler

Posts: 72
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: May 2011


 - posted 05-20-2012 01:30 PM      Profile for Jason Raftery   Email Jason Raftery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The MIB3 drive we received from Deluxe just had the standard 2D / 3D DCPs with CCAP or OCAP designations, no special files for white vs. silver screens.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-20-2012 01:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The silver screen version should have the center of the picture darkened in post. [Big Grin]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7966
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-20-2012 03:14 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's next?

Separate DCPs for "big" screens vs. "small" screens?
DCPs for "drive-ins" vs. "indoor theatres"?
DCPs for "high grossing" theatres vs. "low-grossing" theatres?
DCPs for theatres with "red" seats vs. theatres with "blue" seats?
What about DCPs for "sunny" days vs. "rainy" days?
Or maybe DCPs for "good" sound systems and "crappy" sound systems (in which the soundtrack would be compressed to hell and back so as not to blow anything)?

The only good idea to come out of this would be a separate "AMC" DCP, with dirt and scratches added. (sorry, had to)

How far is this dumb idea going to go?

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Harold Hallikainen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 722
From: Denver, CO, USA
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 05-20-2012 03:48 PM      Profile for Harold Hallikainen   Author's Homepage   Email Harold Hallikainen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The increasing number of versions is interesting. I keep hearing on SMPTE committees about "single inventory." Supposedly they want a single version to play everywhere. A part of the discussion on the high frame rate ad hoc group is how to get HFR material to play on equipment that can't show HFR. The number of versions just keeps increasing.

But, this does bring up something I had not thought of. Since silver screens have uneven luminance, can't that just be adjusted out in the projector? Maybe not if luminance variations changes with viewing angle (center seat has -50% at edges, side seat is maybe -25% at edges). I haven't studied this enough, but I can really see the hot spots on the silver screens I've seen. I don't know how it changes with seat position.

Harold

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-20-2012 04:45 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is the problem...you can only "correct" for one seat...as you move about, the hot spot moves with it. The only way to really minimize the hot spot is to curve the screen. Curving in on direction will create a hot bar...curving in both direction will distribute the light much more evenly BUT at the expense of most everything else (sound/acoustics) and even create geometrically odd looking images unless the lens is designed for the specific curvature.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 05-20-2012 05:03 PM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Also check out this earlier post.

As I wrote there, I can kind of see how Christie's solution would help somewhat, when installed in an auditorium with narrow seating (less variance in viewing angles) and carefully calibrated for that individual screen/room.

But just sending out generic "hotspot-busted" DCP's to silver screen equipped auditoriums all over the world - with no regard to their specific geometrics - doesn't sound like a good solution at all.

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Pietro Clarici
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 136
From: Foligno (PG) Italy
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted 05-20-2012 05:27 PM      Profile for Pietro Clarici   Author's Homepage   Email Pietro Clarici   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personally can't stand silver screens and that's why I'm only using XpanD systems, but since they sent out KDMs for both versions I'll definitely take a good look at the SLV. I'm thinking Deluxe either mislabeled a "high brightness" file of some sorts, or - as crazy as it sounds - they *actually* darkened the center of the image.
I'll see if I can find the right frame to do a back-to-back comparison.

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Edward Havens
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From: Berkeley, CA
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 - posted 05-20-2012 07:03 PM      Profile for Edward Havens   Email Edward Havens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paramount and Fox have taken the Xtra-Brite route with Transformers, Hugo, Star Wars Episode One 3D and Titanic 3D, that I can remember off the top of my head.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 05-21-2012 02:01 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found Sony's note about MIB3 DCP's at a French forum. They seem to be saying vaguely that the WHT and SLV versions are optimized for the respective screen surfaces as regards to "brightness and colorimetry".

Surely it cannot be just a high-brightness grade... It's simply a ridiculous notion that silver screen automatically means a brighter presentation. I can easily get 7 fL on my 1.4 gain white screen using XpanD 3D, even when the lamp is on its last hours.

Edward: that's interesting, thanks for the info since you don't really get to see those alternate DCP's around here. Unless I'm wrong, the high-brightness version of Transformers 3 was only distributed to RealD theatres since the whole "Platinum 6" branding nonsense was done in collaboration with RealD. Is that how it was with the others, too? Do you know if they were also graded for 6 fL, or something else?

As much as I support the "single inventory" idea, I sure wouldn't mind getting those copies for my aforementioned XpanD screen. In fact, we're running most regular 3D DCP's at over 6 fL anyway since it just looks so much better. I know that you're supposed to aim for the brightness levels that the DCP's were graded for, but if there is any visible gamma/color distortion from projecting too bright, it's much less of a problem than the general dimness of the "standard" 4.5 fL.

I know this may be a bit controversial, but 6–7 fL 3D just looks better both to me and our audience (we get positive feedback for the "good 3D" from regular, non-technical patrons). I have no personal experience from going over the spec with other 3D systems, but I guess that XpanD is particularly flexible in this sense. I've heard that added brightness with RealD gives you more ghosting, and I'm not sure how well Dolby's color correction handles boosting brightness levels.

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

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From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
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 - posted 05-21-2012 07:32 AM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is true, more brightness on RealD yields more ghosting, one should be fine with Shutter-3D and Dolby3D as long as you don't push it too hard.

- Carsten

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Chris Milton
Film Handler

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From: London, UK
Registered: May 2012


 - posted 06-11-2012 07:55 AM      Profile for Chris Milton   Email Chris Milton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I work for Sony Pictures I have had the opportunity to view both white and silver MiB3 DCPs side by side, though I watched them both on a white screen.
The difference is subtle but the silver version has richer more saturated colours. I don't know what the thinking behind it is. Perhaps the silver screen doesn't reflect colours as well, or discolours them slightly and so they need to be graded differently.
Personally I think the silver version looked better, even on the white screen.

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