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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Dolby DSS200 vs Doremi (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Dolby DSS200 vs Doremi
Marnix Koster
Film Handler

Posts: 12
From: Wehl / Gelderland / Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 02-28-2012 12:02 PM      Profile for Marnix Koster   Email Marnix Koster   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
just a little question about a server choice. We take part in a project to get out theater digital. now we have to make a choice in a server. We can choose between a Dolby DSS200 or a Doremi DCP2000. When we pay 2000 euro extra we can get a Doremi DCP2K4.

Personally we prefer the Dolby DSS200. Some theaters nearby say we should choose the DCP2k4 because it will be able to play Highframe rate movies. Does anyone know if the DSS200 will also be able to play those movies ?

We have a small screen of 5 meters wide so we will not use 4K in the near future. We screen arthouse movies so 3D is not a selling point for us. Can someone provide us with some information about why we should chose a Dolby or Doremi

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-28-2012 12:30 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
They are both excellent servers, and both will be able to play high frame rates. You won't make a bad decision going with either.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 02-28-2012 12:32 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad is right of course..and another point: Dolby's user interface is a bit simpler and easier to use.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 02-28-2012 01:19 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About HFR, Dolby DSS200 does not need any HW upgrade, while Doremi will need a PCI-Express card to communicate with the IMB - Dolby will use the same "LINK" port.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 02-28-2012 03:03 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I got a sneak-peek of the Doremi user interface when I was doing training at Barco, and (Oh My God!) I hated it instantly!

The Dolby interface is VERY user-friendly. No instruction manual required. Training operators is a breeze.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-28-2012 04:59 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup, I agree with all the above.

I also prefer the Dolby GUI, and I find the DSS200 a wee bit easier to install, there's less jumping between GUI and CLI, and there's nothing in the GUI that opens a CLI window! (Doremi network config).

Now, if we could have a Dolby GUI that could build macros like a Doremi, and configure devices over TCP/IP... That would be the best of all worlds.

FYI Marnix, the DSS200 is a monster compared to the Doremi, it's a lot heavier.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-28-2012 05:52 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, but if you combine the DSS200 with an automation (you know, the things that are supposed to control other devices) then the DSS200 has all the functionality one needs and it puts the automating where it belongs. FWIW...the DSS200 has honest to god relays on its GPOs for controlling other devices too.

Note, with the Dolby one also has to jump out of the GUI to change the network configurations though the Dolby comes preset, out of the box, IF you are doing a standard Dolby install. Now if they could only stop having it default to series 1 projectors!!! That is so last decade!

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 02-28-2012 05:55 PM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby DSS200 and NA-10. Simple and reliable.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-28-2012 07:29 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you go with this Doremi DCP2000, make sure that the HD space is large enough, since this unit doesn't have the HD space as does the 2K4 unit unless you order it with larger HD's

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-28-2012 09:26 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not aware of a Doremi server requiring an IMB for HFR, my information is that it does not, and that the IMB is required only for 4K operation.
I have not worked with a DSS200, but I'm pretty sure the Dolby server I did work with was running under Windows - the Doremi runs under Linux. I prefer Linux for its inherent stability. In setup and normal operation you don't need to be a "linux guru" to run the Doremi, but there is terminal work to do advanced setup (setting the NNTP server address for example) and, rarely, for problem diagnostic work. Doremi supplies relatively easy (for linux neophytes) instructions when this is required, and of course having someone unsure of what he's doing futzing around as root is not a good idea on any linux system.
Drive size will be an issue only for rep houses or possibly for 4K operation. Nobody should get a Doremi with 500GB drives (if that's even still an option), and if you are a rep house with many different shows every week or a 4K house the 2GB or higher drive option would be recommended. I don't know how Dolby handles drive cleanup (ie are expired features automatically deleted?) but current Doremi software has to be manually cleaned up: with the 3x1GB drive servers this is roughly a once-a-month task for "normal" operation with weekly feature changes and one or two features a week per screen. The cleanup is pretty tedious for trailers, particularly if some bonehead ingests everything on every trailer drive that comes in.
99% of my work is with Doremi and overall I like them. The little Dolby experience I had was not totally excellent. We tend to like what we know, so take my opinions as you wish - but I have no problem recommending Doremi.
My overall experience with Dolby over many years is that they consider themselves cinema gods. They tell you the way things should work, and they aren't open to contrary opinions from us mere mortals. Doremi is much humbler and suggestions for improvements or changes are almost welcomed - and sometimes they are actually adopted!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 02-28-2012 09:56 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dave Macaulay
They tell you the way things should work, and they aren't open to contrary opinions from us mere mortals.
Why a few techs knows how to beat "their system" with little trick mods of their own and don't tell anyone about it...

Only thing I have to remember is to always refresh the content listing in the EDIT window after ingesting with Doremi's, since that reminds me of an old WIN3.1 operation.

Dolby, GDC and even SONY auto-refreshes content listings after the ingests are done.

Doesn't Dolby also use Linux?

I think the Qube servers are the Windows based units (but could be wrong, for I knew of one server that was different..).

-Monte

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-29-2012 02:19 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, On a Doremi I often setup macros with multiple commands, say sending the projector to flat will also set the masking to flat. Granted you get the automation to do this via GPIO to the projector, or possibly having it send via TCP/IP or RS232 to the projector, but that's a lot more hassle. A lot of places like having a macro that does say, lamp on + dowser open + tabs open + lights down + sound over, with the appropriate delays. Again, granted you can do things like in something like the eCNA, but automations like that are expensive, here at any rate, and exhibitors just don't have Łk sums for an automation interface.

One wee thing about the way Doremi handles trigger inputs, used for Fire Alarm. Unless I've misunderstood it from day 1, it requires you to insert a trigger cue in each and every playlist. This means it requires human intervention to work correctly (stop or pause playback) and won't be compliant with regs in a lot of places.

I designed our own automation interface from the ground up, 16 relay outputs, 4 inputs (stop, pause, play & fire). Addressable by RS232 or Ethernet. Comes in at a 10th the price of the NA10.
On Fire Alarm activation it raises lights, mutes sound, shuts down the lamp and stops playback. One could argue that stopping playback in not necessary as we've cut picture and sound, but rules are rules in some places. [Roll Eyes]

My point about DSS200 and non-Dolby Ethernet devices really relates to things like the JSD80, it would make life a bit simpler if I could control them direct, like you can with a CP650/750. Also I've got a few places with TCP/IP addressable house lights which have no facility for contact-closure control. Again being able to address them directly, like you can from a Doremi, would be nice.

Totally agree with you about the Series 1 defaulting thing, this is 2012 FFS! At least you don't have to manually set the CineLink type on recent software.

Dominic, the NA10 is horrendously expensive and over specified for 99% of installs. I'm sure I heard Dolby were dropping it in any case.

Dave/Monte, Dolby servers are Linux boxes.

quote: Dave Macaulay
consider themselves cinema gods. They tell you the way things should work, and they aren't open to contrary opinions from us mere mortals.
Isn't that the group credentials for Film-Techer? [Big Grin]

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-29-2012 05:27 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fire trigger - With Doremi, you export a playlist to /doremi/etc and call it "default_cues.xml" (using the "export" button in the save playlist dialog). Anything in that playlist is then appended to the start of aevery playlist you run. The fire trigger certainly should be in it but you can also add exhaust fan start or anything you want to always happen on every show.

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Antti Nayha
Master Film Handler

Posts: 268
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 02-29-2012 06:20 AM      Profile for Antti Nayha   Email Antti Nayha   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Marnix Koster
Some theaters nearby say we should choose the DCP2k4 because it will be able to play Highframe rate movies.
Maybe it’s about this?
Doremi recommended for upcoming Dutch film
quote:
February 16th, 2012
Dutch production company 'De Productie' recently sent an email to Dutch arthouses concerning the upcoming release of the film Above my Head by Eugenie Jansen. In the mail the producers recommend arthouses Doremi servers, as these will be certain to be able to play the film. Above my Head was shot in 3D 50 FPS, a format not yet supported by digital cinema standards.

Above my Head (Dutch title: Ondersteboven) which will be released later this year is the story of a young girl who is taken from Australia to Flanders by her father after the death of her Aboriginal mother. Director Eugenie Jansen wanted to shoot the film in 3D while moving the camera in circles, in order to make it an intense viewing experience. As the regular 24 frames per second (FPS) was bound to create artefacts, stereographer Kommer Kleijn advised Jansen to investigate to shoot the film on a high frame rate.

After extensive tests they decided to opt for 50 FPS, as it made the film sharper and was easier on the eye. However, although higher frame rates are on the agenda since several filmmakers have high speed films in production, high frame rates in 3D is still a little unchartered territory.

In the mail to arthouses, intended as an inventory, production house De Productie asks for input from the arthouses, for instance about which digital cinema equipment they have. The mail states that in order to be able to screen the film arthouses most certainly need a series 2 projector. The producers also state that if the arthouses have a DOREMI server, they will be able to screen the film, most certainly if one has a DOREMI IMB.

The mail doesn´t mention any other server manufacturers, leaving arthouses that made alternative choices in the dark about whether they´ll be able to screen the upcoming film. The filmmakers do however intend to tour a mobile 3D unit in order to facilitate screenings at venues that aren´t able to screen the film with their regular d-cinema equipment.

Sounds like these guys have only managed to test their bleeding-edge, non-standard content properly on Doremi hardware, probably for budget reasons.

As far as I know, high framerate 3D will always need an integrated media block since the data rates exceed that of dual HD-SDI. No matter which server you have.

Dolby has already demonstrated HFR 3D (48 and 60 fps) with a DSS200 and a prototype Dolby IMB.

Note that none of this stuff has been standardized yet – but it sure looks like both Doremi and Dolby will be able to handle the future standards-compliant HFR 3D content. But you will need an IMB in addition to the server.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-29-2012 08:04 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, that's a good tip. Thanks!

I learn something every day, when I know everything life will become very dull.

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