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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Which new 1080 projector to buy for BluRay projection (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Which new 1080 projector to buy for BluRay projection
Celine Negrete
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Nevada City, CA
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted 06-01-2011 11:37 PM      Profile for Celine Negrete   Author's Homepage   Email Celine Negrete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, we need to get a better projector for those times when we screen BluRays at our theatre (which is happening more frequently). This digital/video realm is one that I really do not know much about.

The details:
Screen is 6 feet tall and ~12 1/2 feet wide when in scope mode (we have side masking). So, it is about 13 1/2 feet diagonal. The projector we have right now is located on a shelf that is in the auditorium bolted to the ceiling with a throw of 27 feet.

We only have 62 seats, so we are a fairly small auditorium.

We have had two recommendations:
-Panasonic AE4000U (~$2000)
or, as a step up from the Panasonic:
- M-Vision Cine 260-HC (maybe around $4000?)

But, if I start to read reviews my head begins to swim. And, of course, the Panasonic is for a home theatre so the reviews are mostly written by folks with a slightly smaller screen or shorter throw (but not always)!

Anything would be a step up from what we have had for a few years now: Panasonic PT-AX 100U. But, BluRays were not that common in the past (for us).

Looking for suggestions. Remember....I am a newbie in this digital world, so simpler explanations are appreciated. Thanks!

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 06-02-2011 07:57 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i am sure you'll get alot of suggestions, but first off take these things into consideration:

throw is 27ft and 16:9 fits on 11ft wide screen (scope movies will be letterboxed probably), that means you need a lens with a throw of ~2.5. most home cinema projectors have only one lens, usually in the 1.4-1.6 throw range, which means you'd probably have to reposition the projector much closer to the screen (another 10ft). projectors with long throw lenses are usually more expensive, and each lens is usually in the neighborhood of 1.5k$, depending on model.

If you have a decent screen, i would not worry much about light output at that width, a 270W lamp in the second projector would suffice, i'd not use less than 250W lamps. Also check how much these cost as you can be unpleasantly surprised after you buy a good pj on sale at a great price, but then realise lamps cost a fortune.

Also note, the first one is LCD, the second is single chip DLP. Each technology has some benefits over the other. I cannot for one stand single chip DLP because of rainbow effect. Newer models of single chip DLPs i've seen are somewhat better than those from pre-2008, but they come with a higher price tag (for instance the panny PT DZ series). for smaller screens if you cannot go 3chipDLP i'd rather have LCD.

From personal exp, have been happy with small Optoma PJs, small Epson pjs, small Mitsubishi, smaller Sanyos. There's a big market for these, but as said, if you have a throw of 2.5x the screen, it really narrows the field and certainly doubles/triples the investment.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16151
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-02-2011 09:02 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since in the next few years the whole world will be digital I suggest you look in that direction and just use the D-Cinema projector to do the job when needed...

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Celine Negrete
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Nevada City, CA
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted 06-02-2011 09:33 AM      Profile for Celine Negrete   Author's Homepage   Email Celine Negrete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark,

I understand that. One thing I forgot to mention is that we are an arthouse. So, our films are less available in any format other than 35mm or BluRay at the moment. And, we need something now.

In a couple of years (at the most) we might not even be at this location and with this equipment. So, we are looking for the best possible presentation we can afford at the moment. D-Cinema would not make sense for us right now.

The Panasonic has a lens with 1.9-3.2 and throw distance of 4 feet to 59 feet so getting a full image in a our situation would not be a problem with this model (as far as I can tell).

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 795
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 06-02-2011 10:01 AM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We bought a 3 chip Infocus 777 modified by Kodak for pre show on big screens. It is only a 720p but very effective on small screens!

I would contact Kodak and ask if they have any left as they bought them in bulk a few years ago.

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Celine Negrete
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Nevada City, CA
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted 06-02-2011 10:17 AM      Profile for Celine Negrete   Author's Homepage   Email Celine Negrete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Victor,

Sounds interesting. But, this will be for features not pre-show....so, not sure if that would work?

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film Handler

Posts: 60
From: Paris, France
Registered: May 2008


 - posted 06-02-2011 11:57 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have the Panasonic. 12ft wide scope image, 22ft throw, so quite close to what you have. I am really, really pleased with the result.

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Victor Liorentas
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 795
From: london ontario canada
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 06-02-2011 12:11 PM      Profile for Victor Liorentas   Email Victor Liorentas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Celine our screen is over 30 feet wide and we show dvd + Blu-ray when like you no 35mm print is available.
It is about half the pixels as 1080p but being a 3 chip dlp with great processing it looks stunning!
Since Kodak over bought these they may just give you a deal which they did us!

All out DCinema is best but...

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 06-02-2011 01:27 PM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i second the 777, a 3chip dlp at 720p will usually look better than a budget fullHD home theater setup. it is a bit on the bulkier side, and it did cost a bit when new, so might not be as interesting, budget wise.

otoh newer infocus like 5532 actually look good despite being single chip.

the panasonic with the right lens should be enough and will work great. Lens seems to be exactly what you're after for CS and flat. I would only be concerned for light output of one 170W bulb. do you have a higher (1.6+) gain screen? If you can demo it in a dark room, do it. I have no experience with panasonic other than their larger venue models, so cannot say. check how zoom is handled for a CS setting.

re

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Celine Negrete
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Nevada City, CA
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted 06-02-2011 02:49 PM      Profile for Celine Negrete   Author's Homepage   Email Celine Negrete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the 170 watt bulb concerns me too. But, I did get a good recommendation for this projector fror a trusted source. Nonetheless, looking for 2nd opinions!

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1032
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 06-02-2011 05:32 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
According to the Projection Calculator on ProjectorCentral.com:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE4000U-projection-calculator-pro.htm

You're only going to be getting about 4 fL on a 1.0 gain screen from that projector with the numbers you provided. The calculator is probably taking the Cinema 1 mode into account when you select the Primary Use as "Video/Games" so that 4 fL figure is probably pretty close.

As a result, unless you've got a really high-gain screen, I think you're going to be throwing a very dim image on the screen.

Home theater projectors aren't torches to begin with, but you can do some things to help the situation.

An anamorphic lens will throw some extra light, but you'll need a projector and possibly a video processor to do the necessary hoop-jumping. Not a huge deal, just something that you need to make sure is working through the entire chain.

There are projectors that produce more light, and I would definitely be looking in that direction. While more expensive than the $2000 Panasonic, you should get a better looking image on the screen.

The M-Vision projector you mentioned has better numbers in the Projection Calculator when it is set to "Data/Text" as the Primary Use, but it sinks to 5 fL in "Video/Games" so you're close to the Panasonic again.

Something like the JVC DLA-RS50 is going to pump out more light, but the price is going to set you back quite a bit more. My guess is that an RS40 would do pretty good as well.

Running any projector in its high-lamp mode will increase brightness at the expense of bulb life and with some projectors, proper colors.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7976
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-02-2011 06:12 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is probably outside your budget, but take a look at the Christie HD6K-M. I have worked with the larger version (HD10K-M), and the picture is amazing on a 30' screen. Unlike the D-cinema projectors, it has a good built-in scaler, which means that you will not need to buy and install an external unit.

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Bajsic Bojan
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 188
From: Ljubljana, Si, Eu
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 06-03-2011 01:26 AM      Profile for Bajsic Bojan   Email Bajsic Bojan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the 3chip christies are not in any way suitable for bolting on the ceiling of the auditorium (noise, size,...) and of course the 6000 Lm are complete overkill for 12ft screen.

If christie is an option, the LWU420 is a real nice 3lcd and would fit more than perfect. Since you're in canada might be they are cheaper and more available [Smile]

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2106
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-03-2011 10:58 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that's California, not Canada. Nevada city?

Google rules.

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Celine Negrete
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Nevada City, CA
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted 06-03-2011 08:48 PM      Profile for Celine Negrete   Author's Homepage   Email Celine Negrete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Correct, California, not Canada.

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