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Author Topic: Theatrical HD concert image quality? Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-05-2011 03:13 PM                        Regal's Dole Cannery 18 Theatres in Honolulu has been presenting all of the Metropolitan Opera's HD video presentation for several years now but because of the very expensive ticket price, I have not seen any of the Met performances in HD at the Dole. The theatre will be presenting an all Beethoven concert by the Los Angeles Philharmonic in a couple of weeks in HD and because I love his music, I am thinking about going only if the picture quality and sound is better than what I get on my HD set up at home. There are a lot of excellent concert videos on Blu Ray I can get from Amazon for a little bit more than the theatres admission so it makes no sense to spend $20.00 at the Dole to see something I can buy and watch at home if there is nothing special about the theatrical presentation. How good is the HD picture quality of concerts and operas compared to regular theatrical films projected in digital ? What about the sound quality? Is the sound directional or is it only centered with only the stage speakers used with no surround? -Claude  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 01-05-2011 04:21 PM                     If the theater is playing their Firstlook content through their main digital projector - the one they would play their movies through - then the image should be quite good. However, if the auditorium runs 35mm film only and has not been converted to digital, it will be running through a smaller projector mounted at the port window - possibly a Kodak Infocus or a Christie LW-40. The image may be a bit dark and may not fill the flat-ratio screen but be okay. If that auditorium has a series 1 Barco for the main digital, they may still be running their live content/Firstlook through a Infocus or Christie LW projector.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-05-2011 04:39 PM                        James, As far as I know, all of the Dole's digital projection houses are set up for RealD 3-D and unless any of these houses are put into service to show the concert features, I guess standard projectors will be used at the Dole and frankly, the picture and sound quality are terrible whenever I watch the pre show 'First Look' presentations there. I cannot imagine anyone charging a premium admission price for a substandard video presentation especially when the 3-D digital IMAX shows are six dollars cheaper at this theatre. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 01-05-2011 05:00 PM                       Actually, the quality of all alternate content varies from one event to the next, just like real movies do, only much much more so. Alternate content providers usually establish that the cinema has a D-Cinema projector before releasing programs, so it's not usually a projector problem.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-05-2011 05:42 PM                        The thing that I cannot understand why ticket prices are so expensive for these opera and concert presentations when the Metroploitan Opera used to present several of their current productions for free on public television. On top of that , the Met also released many of their opera productions on CD, laserdisc and DVD's. In addition to several others, I have the complete "Ring" cycle operas by Richard Wagner conducted by James Levine on DVD and they are splendid. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Eric Robinson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 538 From: Santa Rosa, CA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 01-06-2011 12:06 AM                     quote: Claude S. Ayakawa I cannot understand why ticket prices are so expensive Maybe supply and demand.  |  IP: Logged Ed Mauger Film Handler Posts: 11 From: London, London, UK Registered: May 2008 posted 01-06-2011 05:24 AM                     Hi All! We do the Met Opera in the UK as well, and it's extremely popular. Ticket prices are £25, and this is set by the Met - they take 50% of the takings. The picture is decoded through a domestic HD satelite box, either exiting through DVI-D or component analogue. In my opinion there's not much difference. Sound is Dolby AC3, and they use the stage and surround channels. So, it's like watching a good-quality Blue Ray - there is not as much colour available as for real digital cinema, and more compressed. Just when the men in suits think that projectionists are unnecessary, I think the end result depends hugely on the skill and sensitivity of the operator. I've seen so many video scalars with wrong settings, projector macros with errors, and focus and convergence problems, it's not surprising that the picture doesn't always look as good as it should. So now it's all down to the operator. A well set-up scalar, and the sound not played on fader 7, and the result can be stunningly good. Ed.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 01-07-2011 10:20 AM                     One of the things that doesn't seem to be discussed is the assumption that Projectionists can become Broadcast Engineers overnight as this technology is simply parachuted into theatres without so much as a by your leave. Even where training is provided, one is asking people with a particular skillset (35mm projection) to acquire, instantaneously, a completely different skillset, which may not be feasible in many cases. Great if you have a "head" for broadcast equipment and operations, but is it fair on those who don't? Or is it just a cruel "survival of the fittest" process at work and I'm just being a curmudgeon? Some of the installs I've seen have been ramshackle to say the least (gear perched on cardboard boxes and chairs, cables everywhere) and the last Met broadcast I saw was in a delightful shade of yellow  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-08-2011 12:08 AM                        Claude, I can understand watching a Met opera, or La Scala opera, etc. There you have the music yes, but you have a story and spectacle. BUT, a symphony orchestra? How interesting is that? No matter how creative the director is, it's still a static bunch of musicians in uncomfortable looking monkey suits sitting for 2.5 - 3 hours playing -- that's not exactly cinematic and not my idea of excitement. And then there is the sound. This experience can only be as good as 1) the sound as it's mixed for the production and even more crucial, 2) the quality of the playback in the theatre. You say you know the sound in that particular theatre. That's a decided advantage -- I am sure lots of patrons at various other venues don't know what they are getting. Hopefully it will be tweaked to it's best for the engagement that you are going to; unfortunately that might not always be the case. Then for me when it comes to Beethoven, unless it's a new-comer who I would want to hear perhaps for the curiosity, like Dudamel, by this time in my life, I have collected MANY versions on CD and I know and love particular conductors and orchestras and even particular performances by the same conductors. To be honest, if I am in the mood for Beethoven -- I know exactly what conductor, what orchestra I love the best and want to hear. Why risk some other performance that more than likely will displease. At this point in my life I know which interpretations I know note for note and love, and so hearing others, especially PAYING to hear others on some system that may or probably may not be as good as mine....what's the point? I have my Bernard Haitnik & the London Philharomic for the No. 3 and the 'Eroica' & Leonore; I love my Lenny & the NYPhil for No. 3 & 7, there's no one (for me) better than Karl Böhm and the Vienna for No. 6, and ANY of the 9 from that SACD set with Kurt Mazur & the Leipzig. Nah, for classical music, I've got my library and more to the point, my preferences. I can't tell you how many Saint-Saëns organ symphonies I have purchased on CD to see if any of them are as good or as powerful as the one I got when I was in my 30s on LP. Some come close, but in the end, a disappoint. I fear that's what will most likely happen going to hear, not a live orchestra (which I WILL risk a performance not up to par with some of my favorites), but a PLAYBACK -- I do playback in my living room. Now I admit, the Los Angeles is no slouch...do you know if it will be under Zubin Mehta or the guy with the name that for some reason I just love saying out loud cause it makes me laugh -- Eka-Pekka Salonen (say it out loud 10 times). It might be interesting if it were Mehta, but come all the downsides, the price, the questionable theatre audo presentation, the dangers of picking up bedbugs here in NYC, epicenter of the invasion of the body suckers, I will pass. Anyway, all I can say about these broadcasts is that, just like the studios, don't think for a second they won't be releasing them on DVD. NOBODY produces anything on this planet that they won't already be making deals to whore it out on every conceivable format in existence. Believe me, anything the Met has spent millions to produce will sooner or later be available for you to PURCHASE for your very own home. And given the popularity of opera and classic music, it will quickly be moved to the Walmart discount bin. Wait! By your patience you will win.  |  IP: Logged Manny Montes Master Film Handler Posts: 270 From: United States Registered: Feb 2010 posted 01-08-2011 01:30 PM                     The quality is quite good, I'm not sure exactly what they use to project it however I know that certain theaters have NCM HD events, while others only have the capability of NCM going through our DCN projectors. It might actually be playing as DCP through one of their digital projectors (sony's i assume)  |  IP: Logged Caleb Johnstone-Cowan Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 593 From: London, UK Registered: Mar 2006 posted 01-09-2011 08:40 PM                     I can't comment on the live shows because we don't have satellites at our sites, but everyone really loves the experience of seeing our recorded events on the big screen, no-one ever comments on the quality of picture or sound. Claude I would be very surprised if charging the premium we all do for these events your local theatre presented it via a low quality projector. When I'm unsure about these kind of things (I usually wont pay to see something off a DVD or on a small screen) I ask at the Box Office before purchasing. Thank you Sam, Ed and Brian for bringing up something I hadn't thought about with live events, I always assumed the TMS and receiver would be set up in advance and the feed would be fine. I'll keep your comments in mind for the future when we hopefully have the opportunity to present these events as they will do fantastic business at one of the sites I work at.  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 01-09-2011 08:45 PM                        The Fathom Events broadcasts of the LA Phil will be under the baton of their 2nd year music director, Gustavo Dudamel (or Il Dude as some locals call him). YouTube Dudamel in London with the Venezuela Youth Orchestra doing West Side Story to see what all the excitement's about.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-09-2011 09:12 PM                        Now THAT I would pay for. Dudamel channels Lenny Bernstein a pleasure to watch. I've gotta find out where it is playing in NYC and IF I trust the venue with regard to the sound in that theatre. Thing is, there aren't that may exciting conductors leading spectacular orchestras. But like I said, I have to believe that sooner rather than later this and any other performance that has been recorded for one type of distribution will wind up available as VOD or BluRay and any other available outlets.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 01-09-2011 09:44 PM                        Frank, I agree with you about theatrical opera and concerts will eventually be released on Blu-Ray and DVDS. As I had mentioned in my original thread, some of the Metropolitan Opera productions from previous years were available on Laserdiscs and DVDs and I have a few of them. Public Television had also broadcast some of the Met productions and one can listen to them on public radio like I do every Saturday during the winter. I recently purchased a very stunning film version of Puccini's LA BOHEME with Anna Nebrebko and Rolando Villazon on Blu-Ray and it is a visual and aural treat. Personally I think it makes more sense to buy concerts and operas on BD than see them in a theatre. For a few dollars more than what a theatre chage for a live theatrical presentation, I can buy and keep a BD of my favorite operes and concerts and watch them over and over again. I enjoyed THE KINGS SPEECH from England last week and DEAR DOCTOR from Japan today and that is the kind of theatrical presentations I am interested in seeing. By the way, I was fortunate to see Herbert Von Karajan in person conduct the Vienna Philharmonic when they came to Honolulu as part of a American tour in the late fifties and Leonard Bernstein lead the New York Philharmonic at the Wakiki Shell about the same time. I also had the opportunity to see Igor Stravinsky, Aaron Copeland and Aram Khachaturion conduct the Honolulu Symphony Orchestra when they were still active with concert performances. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 01-10-2011 08:18 PM                     Like any live event, be it a race or an opera, the thrill is seeing it in real time, screw ups and all. If you think the price might not be worth it, stay home, that will save your potential audience members from your complaining and swearing about everything you find fault with.  |  IP: Logged

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