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Author Topic: Digital: Scope inside Flat? Eric Hooper Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 532 From: Fort Worth, TX, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 10-14-2010 01:56 PM                     A local theatre near me just went "all digital". I just went there for the first time since them installing the digital projectors. This theatre has (or had) side masking curtains. What they seem to be set up to do is leave the screen masking as FLAT, and then if the movie is in scope, they just project the "letterboxed" scope image inside the flat-masked screen creating a "letterbox" image with the black bars (blank screen) at the tops and bottoms. This of course makes for a very small movie image compared to how they used to open the side curtains and using the whole scope screen with FILM. (You know, how the theatre was built for.) Plus I found the black bars (blank screen) annoying. Is this the norm now with all digital installations? IMO, this is a huge step backwards.... I can get the same experience on my TV at home...so what's the point anymore?  |  IP: Logged Todd McCracken Master Film Handler Posts: 263 From: Northridge, CA, USA Registered: Mar 2008 posted 10-14-2010 02:18 PM                    I for one have never seen this at a site, and no it is not to spec.  |  IP: Logged Matt Johnston Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Fort Myers, FL Registered: Oct 2009 posted 10-14-2010 03:06 PM                     Could be that someone just ran something wrong and didn't make the necessary changes for the show.  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2010 04:13 PM                     Eric, from what you have described, that installation is TOTALLY WRONG. Someone needs to be hung out to dry, either the owner/s or the people who installed it.  |  IP: Logged Eric Hooper Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 532 From: Fort Worth, TX, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 10-14-2010 04:49 PM                     I'm glad to hear this is not the norm. I wandered into another auditorium at the theatre, and found the same thing going on on that screen. It seems it's set up so if the movie is flat, it will fill the whole flat screen, but if the movie is in scope, no adjustments are made, and the scope image is just shown inside the flat screen area. Unfortunately there were no Flat movies showing where I could confirm that this is their plan... This is at a twin. Down the street there is a 6-plex run by the same company, and I wonder if they're set up like this also? The digital installations happened at both places at the same time. I wonder if a letter to corporate would do anything? Otherwise, me thinks I'll skip going to this location anymore, if I know the movie showing is in scope.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-14-2010 05:02 PM                     Sounds like they weren't shown how to build the playlist correctly, or the cues weren't set up right with the automation where the scope feature being played through a flat program, does the letter-box presentation instead of being a full screen presentation.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-14-2010 05:50 PM                     sounds like their digital projector has a zoom lens, and they just zoomed down instead of moving their masking -- but it's digital -- so be happy  |  IP: Logged Carsten Kurz Film God Posts: 4340 From: Cologne, NRW, Germany Registered: Aug 2009 posted 10-14-2010 07:16 PM                     Go there and ask a projectionist about the zoom lens automation for these screens. - Carsten  |  IP: Logged Dustin Mitchell Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1865 From: Mondovi, WI, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 10-14-2010 11:47 PM                     What Monte said is probably what happened-if you run scope content through the flat program on a zoom lens projector it gets letter-boxed.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-15-2010 12:32 AM                        Like I have said before -- put a digital projector in a booth there they didn't know what they were doing with film, and they will muck up digital just as badly or WORSE. Why worse? Because one of the things that gave the owner a woody at the thought of installing that spanking new digital projector was that he thought he could get away with even FEWER qualified booth personnel than he was paying to run film. Before he thought he could get an minimum wage usher to go up and start the film; now he thinks digital won't even require THAT much attention. And besides, letterbox is what everyone is used to seeing on their home TVs, right? I wouldn't be surprised if no one even realizes this presentation is digital done WRONG!  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-15-2010 12:46 AM                     Without knowing site specifics and equipment used we can only speculate. The standard practice usually is not that one. BUT there can be reasons why one is forced to use this method. One reason could be that the projectors have manual lenses. Manual lenses are more convenient for common width screens and one has to manualy fully zoom in and out for adjusting scope and flat content. Scope content uses less resolution on the chip which is really pathetic since most cinemas have grandeur scope screens. Another reason could be that the lenses are at their very extreme when zooming all the way to accomodate the scope format and not completely filling it and thus due to these constrains they did not make it. Of course the solution would have been in both cases, if is one of the above, to use an anamorphic but then you need to pay insane amount of money for a simple anamorphic but if you have to do it to get it right, and it is the right way since this is the only way which uses the full chip for the scope content and thus scope uses the maximum resolution, you have to do it. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-15-2010 02:02 AM                     Remember, if the lens was left in "flat mode" and a scope movie was run, the movie wasn't simply letterboxed. It was letterboxed AND cropped! This is the result of either one of three things. *Cheap-ass-shitty-theater owners not willing to pay for an automation of some sort (or even a half-assed tech) to setup a system to handle the format change. *Morons running the booth. It is VERY possible the theater was setup properly and what you saw was nothing more than one day a new person was running the booth that had no idea how to properly put on a scope digital show. For all you know this was all fixed by the next day. *The auditorium had an issue with the masking system. A few weeks back we had a masking system jam due to someone (moron) sitting something up against the motor and rigging. As a result, we were unable to open the curtains. Since this was already on a huge screen, the managers comped everyone's tickets and told them we would be presenting the show letterboxed (and cropped) and we ran it that way for a show or two until we could get the masking guys in to fix it that night. The customers understood the issue, were thrilled they still got to see their movie and the theater cared enough to make it free for the sub-standard presentation. Sometimes shit just happens and you do what you can, but since you saw more than one auditorium running like this, I don't think this is what was happening. At least with digital, that IS an option to save a show (provided you were smart enough to install common height masking systems in the first place).  |  IP: Logged Kris Verhanneman Expert Film Handler Posts: 182 From: Belgium Registered: Dec 2009 posted 10-15-2010 03:00 AM                     Why do they still use those curtains for masking? Is there any technical reason for?  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 10-15-2010 11:10 AM                     Occasionally, my Sony projector will not switch from flat to scope the first time we run something new. I have to go into projector control and manually switch from flat to scope. From then on, it runs fine, for digital, that is... I need to drink more. I'm starting to get used to this digital fiasco.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 10-15-2010 12:46 PM                        For Eric, no, what you describe is not the norm for digital installations. Provided one has enough lamp power available, the current digital machines can handle both common-height (sides move in/out) or common-width (top (and sometimes bottom too) moves). Many of the installs I'm doing are common-width where only the top mask moves. Yes, this results in the scope image being smaller than the flat image. Not the best, but many theaters do this nonetheless. And yes, so far I've seen at least one install where a theater previously ran film with common-heights, but decided to go common-width for digital. I imagine cost concerns drive these decisions. For me, common-height is the way to go whenever possible. I'm not a fan of the "wall-to-wall image for all formats" screen size philosophy. But then again, what do I know?  |  IP: Logged

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