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Author Topic: REAL D DOLBY 3D David Stone Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Hornsby, Sydney, Australia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 09-12-2009 01:26 AM                     Hi Guys, I have to make a decision betweeen Dolby 3D and Real D this week. Could someone tell me what is actually in the Real D license agreement Cheers, David.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-12-2009 02:38 AM                     Go Dolby.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 09-12-2009 06:43 AM                        A decision made without reading the contract in advance is not a decision; it is a crap shoot. Louis  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 09-12-2009 11:52 AM                       You won't like the obligations to Real D, but it's costs less at first. Kind of like a car rental. It's always better to buy and have the freedom.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-12-2009 12:49 PM                     Dolby would be my first choice because you own it outright and there are no strings attached. 3-D is excellent as is the color even though its a filtered system. The only downsides to Dolby are it's inefficiency and the high cost of the filter disk if it ever needs replacement due to a lamp explosion... it's well in excess of 15K. Make sure you have room to accomodate the dish washer and that you have sufficient hot water available. If you have very hard tap water or water with alot of iron in it additional filters/treatment will have to be installed. The best thing though is the per cycle use of a pair of Dolby glasses costs but about 5 cents. 3-D effect is the same everywhere in the room and this is not the case with a system that relies on a Silver screen. You may loose 3-D completely in the front few rows and at the sides with silver screens. There are too many downsides to the Real-D contract in my book for it to be a viable system in anything but a large chain. You won't be able to bring anyone elses 3-D system into your booth for 10 years unless by some miracle you can negotiate this into your contract(good luck!). The one good thing of recent is that Real-D and Master Image have standardized on the same polarization angles so their glasses are now interchangable. You also need to take a very close look at the Master Image unit. M.I. is also available from DTS. This unit is easily moved between screens where Real-D and Dolby are fixed in a given theater. You need Real-D's permission to move theor unit anywhere else fomr it's initial installation location. You need a silver screen for Real-D and Master Image So you might ask yourself what type of audience do you have... Do they throw stuff at the screen regularly? Kids do this all the time!! The supposedly washable Hurley silver screen looks like crap...very splotchy and isn't an even an option. Big Sky is soon to release a new washable silver screen as well and they claim to have excellent consistancy and it has been approved by Real-D... although we'll see how that consistancy holds in the real world production. There is alot to weigh when buying 3-D and you'll have to live with the downsides of each system for a long time so study them carefully and see which best fits your situation. Lastly, you should consider equipment insurance if your a small exhibitor. Although the equipment is super reliable any repairs to any digital cinema gear is going to be EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE once your warranty departs. If you run the lamp past warranty and have an explosion and it also takes the Dolby Filter Wheel figure at least 20+K to get going again. Reflectors can cost about 7k by themselves!! Sure, there are extended manufacturers warranties avauilable at extra cost(considerable cost actually)... equipment insurance may however turn out to be less expensive than the manufacturers extended warranty. Lastly, Wait to buy at the end of the year or early next year when the Generation 2 Based Projectors come available. Then you have a 2K/4K convertable projector that also accepts Media Block systems. If you buy now you'll be sitting on an obsolete expensive piece of gear wishing you would have waited. Mark  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2009 01:33 PM                     Dolby is the way to go. Silver screens suck, the disposable glasses are nowhere near as environmentally friendly (even if you DO recycle them), the end result image is better, and the system is significantly cheaper to operate. Yes the initial costs are more, but you aren't getting screwed into a contract. You own the equipment, it is a one time purchase...end of story.  |  IP: Logged David Zylstra Master Film Handler Posts: 432 From: Novi, MI, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 09-12-2009 03:24 PM                     quote: You won't be able to bring anyone elses 3-D system into your booth for 10 years unless by some miracle you can negotiate this into your contract(good luck!). I have copies of my directly negotiated contract as well as the CBG one. The 10 year "deal" IS ONLY IF YOU TAKE THE CBG OPTION to get their group negotiated price, the standard "off the shelf" option is 5 years with various pricing options. Yes it is true that you are restricted to only do RealD in buildings you have taken the deal for - but face it, if Dolby decided to license their product like RealD they would put the same restrictions in the contract. Something a lot of exhibitors are forgetting is what to do if they want multiple screens - i.e. the economic payback changes drastically if you want more than 1 3D screen (for almost 3 months this summer we had 3 full screens running 3D content). We have RealD mainly because they were first to market and could deliver the 3D product before the rest started selling their systems. My only fear is what will happen if/when the studios raise the 4.5fl 3D level - Dolby and Master Image need to figure out how to light the larger screens. Don't take my comments as recommending the RealD system - use what you think is the best fit for your situation, both technically and economically (and whether or not you think 3D will be a passing fad).  |  IP: Logged Jeremy Weigel Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1062 From: Edmond, OK, USA Registered: Mar 2007 posted 09-12-2009 05:04 PM                     If 3D is just going to die out again as some have predicted (and rightly so based on the past) why would you want to buy and own the gear out right and be stuck with useless gear? This was one of the main questions that our owners struggled with when trying to decide between Dolby and RealD. They ultimately went with RealD and we have the 5yr lease term. We also rolled up our original screens not just as spares, but in case we revert back after the 5yr term.  |  IP: Logged Julio Roberto Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 938 From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain Registered: Oct 2008 posted 09-12-2009 07:06 PM                    I'm also a proponent of dual-projection 3D solutions. For all the above. Considering how expensive a system like Dolby's (plus say 800 pair of glasses plus washing machine plus antitheft system/cleaning labor), a dual projection setup is not WAYYYYY more expensive. I mean, instead of one very powerfull and bright projector with a very high wattage lamp plus a 3D add-on, one could get two cheaper projector and smaller lamps. The add-on (polarizing filters) can be dirt cheap, and you can boast having a setup just about identical to brand-new Imax!!! If you don't like silver screens, you can fit dual projectors with passive Infitec filters (far cheaper than a Dolby wheel). Barco will even fit them for you, i.e. And once the 3D fad dies, you can move the extra projector to a smaller screen, or use it as a spare, or sell it or something. I mean, a DCI projector is a DCI projector. A pulled RealD/Dolby system is ... well, who knows what it will be 5 years from now. Again, not saying that a dual projection system is cheaper than a 3D add-on, just saying it deserves some consideration. Also, don't forget Master Image. If they could lower their prices a bit, they would be a winner for many installations. I agree that Dolby is a great system capable of top results with the shortcomings already mentioned: a bit high in price, glasses are very expensive (in case of loss), needs TONS of light to reach anywhere near acceptable levels which often means a high-gain screen anyway (or a $$$$ lamp or both).  |  IP: Logged David Stone Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Hornsby, Sydney, Australia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 09-12-2009 11:53 PM                     Thank you to everyone who replied with very useful info. The problem in the land of Oz is that Dolby3D is generally $40-50k AUD dearer to setup than Real D, the cost of glasses is $50AUD+, theft and breakage is high. I have a couple of more questions for the panel... Is ther any restriction on running 2D digital if you install Real D in a single screen, someone mentioned to me that Real D only allow 35/70mm in 2D if Real D installs their system ? I have projection port problems..do you need a 24inch x 24 inch port for Real D..Someone told me if you use Z screen not XL you can use a smaller port ? I have a 65 foot throw on a 33 foot scope image...does anyone know the formula for what size the image would be at the port? The series 2 Christie 2000ZX projector..is there much difference over series 1. Cheers again, David Stone.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-13-2009 03:55 AM                     You are better off going Master Image instead of Real D. When I saw it at Cine Expo in Amsterdam and previewing UP it seemed that it had a bit more depth that then other 3D systems. Of course it might be the footage but if you are willing to put a silver screen anyway get a quote from MI instead of RealD.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2009 08:46 AM                     Well, series 1 won't do full frame triple flash which is a very important thing for 3-D. The full frame ability greatly improves resolution and brightness. May also allow you to use a smaller lamp as well. Generation 2 projectors are a whole other game... call them Series three if you like. Master Image shuold then be thouorghly investigated by yourself. Not only do you own it outright with no strings attatched but it's also easily movable between screens. Image quality is very high. The only downside is that you will have to clean the filter wheel about every 10 days to 2 weeks. Mark  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-13-2009 02:07 PM                     Master Image seems simple and its clearly the best option instead of the Real D if he is willing o change to silver screen that is. Movability is a winning feature only if you install silver screen in the other screens of your complex. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 09-13-2009 07:19 PM                     Mark Gulbrandsen said quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Well, series 1 won't do full frame triple flash which is a very important thing for 3-D. The full frame ability greatly improves resolution and brightness. The user manual for the CP2000-ZX indicates that it will do triple flash 3D at full frame as it has an FFIB - triple flash hardware called Brilliant3D. So what's the truth?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-13-2009 07:25 PM                     Peter, When I think of them I consider the ZX Series 1 to have an EFIB and Series 2 to have and FFIB. Other then that there is little difference. The ability to triple flash was always available in the DMD's but the supporting semiconductors couldn't run at that speed reliably. which is why FFIB came to be. The upcomming Generation 2 projectors are a whole other ball game because they are 2K/4K convertible. There will also be an upcomming version of the ZX that will accept a 6kw lamp. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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