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Author Topic: Sony Marketing of 4K. Have a look. James B Gardiner Film Handler Posts: 91 From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-08-2009 09:40 PM                     I was surfing youtube today and came across this. Sony Prof Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/mysonyprofessional This stuff is shot very well, and most likely with top end Sony Kit. So it does look great.. We all know here that the Sony 4K solutions has its issues. Issues that make any knowledgeable cinema owner, in general, step back from Sony projections solutions considering them not ready for massive deplyment. However, we all agree that Sony has amazing potential. In many ways this is propaganda, but still. Marketing is Marketing and this has been done well. James  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-08-2009 09:50 PM                     It doesn't come up.... quote: James B Gardiner Issues that make any knowledgeable cinema owner, in general, step back from Sony projections solutions considering them not ready for massive deplyment. Perhaps not down under but here in the states at least two major chains have bought a combined 12,000 Sonys. So I wouldn't exactly call it a solution that isn't ready for deployment. Another chain here in the states is paying 73K for their 4K sonys ... Now thats basically the same price as buying a big 2K projector and associated equipment. Which would I buy if I had to choose today? The Sony for sure because it has more marketing potential than 2K has(for the moment). In reality though I'm telling everyone to wait it out at least another year because something big HAS TO GIVE in the pricing structure of 2K D-Cinema to fit in 4K DLP. NO one under the sun is going to pay even bigger bucks for 4K DLP... Mark  |  IP: Logged James B Gardiner Film Handler Posts: 91 From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-08-2009 10:22 PM                     I fixed the link in the first post. Just because Sony are selling the farm does not make the equipment "WORK" better. A clear evaluation of the Sony solutions leaves a LOT to be desired. As some one who is a technology developer and knows a lot about DCI, cinema operation and Sony solution. Sorry, I do not consider Sony solutions ready. There are just to many issues. I'm not saying it does not work. It does, especially if you don;t car about the DCI technical level of acceptance. It is also very propitiatory using a lot of proprietary standards that 2K systems use open standards etc. (For example, you can only use the Sony (SMS) DCI player with a Sony projector. No competition here.) There is no WAY the kit, which likely comes in as 2x the weight compared to 2k solution, is being sold at a commercial cost. The way they got FIPS etc. Just so many things that could explode in your face down the road. And if you did not know, the two big contracts Sony just made has an out clause. If another player comes out with a competing 4K system, the cinema chains in question have the option to re-evaluate the contract. When I found this out, it kind of now makes sense that TI have announced 4K so early. It makes the Sony 4K announcements hollow. The Sony 4K kit is great and a good start, but I am not compelled to support its adoption for anything other then niche areas where 4k makes a difference. Not until they polish the solution and open it up.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-09-2009 12:03 AM                     Ahh, the whole 4K thing doesn't mean squat. It's numerical masturbation largely. Hollywood studios still, by and large, render nearly all of their digital intermediates and CGI in mere, barely better than HDTV quality 2K resolution. They do it because it is cheaper and still "DIGITAL." So therefore it is perfect. Why bother with 4K perfect when you already have perfect at 2K? In the end, a lot of 4K projectors are going to be installed without much of any native 4K rendered content to show. But the 4K hype will be out there anyway, just like the huge "70mm" logos for all the 35mm to 70mm blowups in the 80's. Nevermind anyone actually bother shooting a movie in a real 65mm/70mm format.  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 08-09-2009 01:03 AM                     James, what exactly are the issues with Sony's 4k system? The few issues that I have heard about do seem manageable, ie tricky to set up and even a bit complicated to load the shows. The few people I know who work with it even like it! So I am interested to hear more detailed criticism about its pros and cons. I would be interested your knowledgeable point of view or anyones hands on experiences.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-09-2009 08:14 AM                     quote: The few people I know who work with it even like it! Ditto here...  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-09-2009 01:37 PM                     Sony always had this "our system is fully incompatible with anything else" tradition and in D-Cine this is still the case. 4K would only benefit cinemas with a screen more than 15m width! Demetris  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-09-2009 08:00 PM                     Demetris, Again, It isn't about resolution at all. Dude... this is the exhibition industry!!! The cheapest assholes on earth run the majority of this buisness . It's about price and nothing else. AMC got them so cheap! Like 56K per system . So far Sony is the cheapest and right now Sony's 4K 2-D system is darn close to the same price as a large 2K 2-D system even in single quantity. For say 1200 to 2000 USD more I would certainly buy the Sony and exploit the marketing ability it affords(for the moment!). I also personally feel that even a 25 to 30' wide screen would benefit from 4K be it DLP or Sony. Smaller than that it again would depend on how much extra it costs. I've seen 70mm on screens that small and 70mm still makes a huge difference!!! Mark  |  IP: Logged James B Gardiner Film Handler Posts: 91 From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-11-2009 07:44 AM                     My main issues about the Sony Kit are 1. Sony do not appear to be selling the kit at commercials rates. Its more about industry dominance. I cannot see this being a good thing for the industry when things change. 2. there are a lot of non-standard and proprietary implementations in the Sony system. This goes completely against the ideas behind DCI. 3. The system has a much higher running cost. 4. The colour consistency across the screen is not within DCI spec. I have heard comments from quite a few people who have notices this during general content playback even before using test images that should bring this to your attention. I have been told this has been addressed in the latest systems, but I don;t know what to believe. 5. In general Sony kit is always the most expensive but arguably the best. If Sony does archive dominance, expect the same marketing model. Is it compatible with cinema exibition? My issues revolve around the stability for our industry, not that the kit is not fit for use. An example of my issues is that, during showest I heard that the Sony Stand kept the Projector/LAMP on during the show day and night. This was to ensure the colour consistency issue did not surface.. Which is connected to heating up and down during day to day use. I do remember being on the floor late at night and the Projector still spinning its fans. So I am inclined to believe this. Smoke end mirrors.. James  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 08-11-2009 08:19 AM                     According to Sony's list there are currently 89 Regal and 43 AMC locations with the Sony 4k projection system installed. I don't know if that means all screens or not but I know at least some locations are. Although anything is possible, I can't imagine that hundreds of units would be installed that don't meet DCI spec or require running bulbs 24/7.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 08-11-2009 12:24 PM                     Remember people, this is Sony, the same fine folks who screwed everybody who got into SDDS....and a great price won't mean squat when (not if) Sony drops all support for the machines and leaves them all with a very expensive boat anchor.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 08-11-2009 01:49 PM                     I think this is a little different than SDDS. The SDDS system was purpose built JUST for 35mm digital sound. Sony uses the SXRD imagers for other things. As for the server, it can be replaced by somebody else. The Doremi can be upgraded to 4k now and integrated into the Sony projector if one really wanted to do that. The only reason the server is integrated is that there was no "cinelink" encryption for a 4k stream so they had to lock the cables inside for DCI security BS.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-11-2009 10:04 PM                     quote: James B Gardiner Sony do not appear to be selling the kit at commercials rates. You don't call 73K USD or even 83K USD a commercial rate. Here the 73K is the same price as a fairly large 2K system.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-12-2009 01:48 AM                        I consider that Sony at the moment have a large marketing advantage, to the average cinema consumer 4k is better than 2k. My 4k multiplex will have the advantage over the 2k multiplex across the road. A large 4k exhibition footprint will now put pressure on the pipe blockage that now rests with digital intermediates and the entire post chain as Bobby says. Studios have shown they will do large format shoots for Batman, Trans. 2 etc The 4k sites will be better able to capitalise on this.....and there is more coming. To me, the perspective buyer of a 2k/4k set-up, I want bang for my buck and reliability. If Sony can deliver these then they have my attention. It does not bother me that their pricing may be subsidised. The old JVC Hughes units we (the company I was with back then) bought back in 1999 were hugely subsidised.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 08-12-2009 09:59 AM                     With the number of 4k installs going in, I'd be surprised if we didn't start seeing at least the tent pole product being produced in 4k by mid next year.  |  IP: Logged

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