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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Dolby Show Store RAID degradation (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Dolby Show Store RAID degradation
Terrence Meiczinger
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Orono, Me, USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 07-11-2009 06:39 PM      Profile for Terrence Meiczinger   Author's Homepage   Email Terrence Meiczinger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have 3 Dolby Digital Cinema systems and have seen 3 red light drive degradation errors in less than 6 months. Each time Dolby has sent out new drives, which fixes the problem. However, I'm having difficulty believing we had 3 drives spontaneously fail.

I'm more inclined to think the issue is with Dolby's procedure of just having us hard shut off the Show Store/Show Player each night. I remember from my Unix days that the OS and RAID were never happy being treated like that. Thoughts?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-11-2009 06:48 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't power down the player ever. You can (and probably should) reboot it once a month, but powering down hard drives daily is just asking them to fail.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 07-11-2009 06:55 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have GDC servers and was told never to power them down being thatthey also contain three HD's in a RAID setup within this setup.

We just turn the monitor off and let the thing buzz away happily every night.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-11-2009 08:52 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First off for sure do not turn your units off! If you loose a second drive the entire OS has to be reloaded as well as your content and shows.

Always try a RAID rebuild FIRST!!! This works 93% of the time. The procedure I believe is in the latest gestation of the manual... if you can't find it just call Dolby tech support for the correct proceedure. Allow about 3+ hours for this to complete. If a rebuild doesn't fix the problem then replace the bad drives and leave the servers powered on through a decent line regulating type UPS.

Mark

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James B Gardiner
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia
Registered: Feb 2009


 - posted 07-11-2009 09:05 PM      Profile for James B Gardiner   Email James B Gardiner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whats the standard for you guys.

UPS or no UPS?

And if UPS, what is on the UPS and what is not?

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Terrence Meiczinger
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Orono, Me, USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 07-11-2009 09:16 PM      Profile for Terrence Meiczinger   Author's Homepage   Email Terrence Meiczinger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there a reboot sequence? I didn't notice one in the manual, power cycle seems to be their solution. I never got the point of rebuilding RAID arrays (outside of drive size changes). If it can be rebuilt, shouldn't it just be automatic by nature.

I have a replacement drive, so I'll just swap it out. The last time, I didn't need to rebuild manually, just put in the new drive and it did its thing. In theory these are hot-swappable... maybe I'll be brave enough to try that one sometime.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-11-2009 09:52 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rebuilding is required even if you swap the RAID drive......you have to go into the 3WARE interface as the unit boots up (After it sees/doesn't see all of the drives...it will prompt you on the screen and tell you the button sequence.

We recently had a drive with less than 3-months on it go down...3WARE couldn't even find it...so forget about a rebuild...Dolby sent a drive...DOA...second drive did the trick.

Honestly...you should expect a drive failure about once/per year per unit.

We UPS our servers with true sine-wave output (always on battery power so there is a zero transition time)...only the critical stuff is on the UPS. Though the monitor is on it, we have our clients merely turn it off when not in use (At the end of the day).

I'd recommend having a spare Raid drive on-site AND having a hard drive to store all of your snipes and such (or to bounce content off when doing RAID repairs...much easier than to start from scratch and load all of the clips back on.

Steve

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Terrence Meiczinger
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Orono, Me, USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 07-11-2009 10:26 PM      Profile for Terrence Meiczinger   Author's Homepage   Email Terrence Meiczinger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We just replaced the drive and rebooted. It looks like it is rebuilding... flashing green on the good drives, flashing yellow/red on the replacement. I'll see if it ends up rebuilding automagically, if not I'll go into 3-ware bios and mark a rebuild. I think I'll take the good advice and get a UPS in each rack and stop powering these things off. If we keep getting drive failuires, I'll switch to solid state drives... or this thing called film. :-)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-11-2009 10:52 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Solid state drives would break the bank. Have you looked at the price of a SSD and the small sizes they are offered in? Not an option at this point in the game.

What kind of drives is Dolby using? Does anyone have a manufacturer and model number?

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Terrence Meiczinger
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Orono, Me, USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 07-11-2009 11:07 PM      Profile for Terrence Meiczinger   Author's Homepage   Email Terrence Meiczinger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
off the shelf $99 drives and since I happen to have one in my hand fresh out of a dolby unit... Seagate Barracuda ES.2 ST3500320NS. Considering the same sized SSD is $1500... yeah, I'll stick with the mech drives for awhile.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-11-2009 11:25 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If we keep getting drive failuires, I'll switch to solid state drives... or this thing called film. :-)


(Bold added by me. )

Going to film would be your best option. [Smile]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-12-2009 01:46 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow, yeah those drives are nothing special at all. In fact odds are Dolby is getting them in OEM bulk, which only carries a 3 year warranty. The retail packaged drives (which are expected to last longer) carry a 5 year warranty. Regardless, exact replacements for those are under $75 delivered all over the internet.

Personally I would go with a higher quality drive with retail packaging if I was going to replace them.

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Stu Jamieson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 524
From: Buccan, Qld, Australia
Registered: Jan 2008


 - posted 07-12-2009 05:24 AM      Profile for Stu Jamieson   Email Stu Jamieson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So what's the rationale behind not rebooting RAID drives? Why does this make them more prone to failure?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-12-2009 08:00 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby claims that the drives they source are not off-the-shelf in that they are rated for longer life cycles than those, of the same model number, sourced through normal outlets....or so they said in their class.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-12-2009 08:52 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Dolby claims that the drives they source are not off-the-shelf in that they are rated for longer life cycles than those, of the same model number, sourced through normal outlets....or so they said in their class.

Yea, they give that hard drive spheil in every training class!! With the frequency of the red drive lights occuring I'd bet that one would have the exact same luck with off the shelf Seagate drives of the same/similar type when it's a failed drive. Don't forget that a red light doesn't always mean the drive indicated has failed. It's intersting that I have ONLY seen frequent RAID failure on Dolby Show Store units... not on other manufacturers Servers. The other thing here is that the RAID card in the Dolby is now a dinosaur among RAID cards and will only recognize about 400gb maximum. It's getting more and more difficult to find drives that size. Dolby also charges a ludricous price for the drive... Something like $400.00 list. One can remove the plastic rails from the old drive and put them on the new drive in less then a minute.

SSD's are the way of the future... still a little too early to utilize them in this sort of application both because of price and because of write limitations of flash memory. Several Servers (Doremi is one) use a SSD or flash memory for the OS.

Alas, Dolby is comming out with a new one piece server anyway in the very near future!!

Mark

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