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Author Topic: e-cinema now Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-21-2009 11:47 PM                        I am curious to know how other cinemas are going with e-cinema. A year ago, I was distressed at the variable quality of movie files but lately, it has matured to the extent that it can be better than 35mm for sub-run in some circumstances. Also there are some distributors who are releasing exclusively in the format. It is usually preferable to run subtitled movies in e-cinema (more readable). The disadvantages remain that lamp costs work out more than xenons but this is offset by lower freight costs. Scope films must be 35mm because the digital files contain less info in that ratio. The files take more time to load and check than a film feature takes to make up - it is good to have a mix of film and digital so that one can be made up while the other is loading. As I stated in another thread, the quality of many (not all) 35mm prints has deteriorated recently so our e-cinema image is looking brighter and crisper. Plus we can rely on good sound, without panicing whether we get dts discs or the DD track has passed its use-by date.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-21-2009 11:56 PM                     Although everyone will probably know what you mean, please try and use the industry standard D-cinema term so as not to confuse anyone with e-cinema. And there is no "use by" date on the Dolby Digital tracks. What you are referring to are idiots handling the film that should be shot. I can run a film for half a year and the error reading only gets better than the first time the film played. There are plenty of other people here that can attest to the same results. If your Dolby Digital tracks are showing increased error counts, you are doing something wrong.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-22-2009 01:01 AM                        Thanks Brad, but in Australia the term e-cinema is used to distinguish it from d-cinema which has only taken a toe-hold here and primarily for 3D. There is a well-established e-cinema network here. If we refer to it as d-cinema we will upset some major distributors. As for Dolby Digital, it keeps working fine when we get a new print or one from a cinema that knows how to run film. We run a mix of new and sub-run. A cinema I know has probably the oldest equipment in the country, yet we receive prints from them that play with an error rate of 2. Prints fom newish multis can have unreadable DD tracks after 5 weeks. Also, if a print has crimping damage the dd track is affected. For example, the print we are running of Angels & Demons is excellent apart from a few feet that was not properly wound, causing crimped edges. dts plays without a hitch but I tried the dd track (error rate 4 to 5 throughout) and it wobbles back to SR on those few patches. If we only had DD i would be manually switching to SR for those segments.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-22-2009 01:30 AM                     That settles it. Its time for you to just move to the US where we run new prints.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 06-22-2009 02:32 AM                     Same here. D-Cinema is used to define DCI spec exhibition, and E-Cinema is used to describe, well, non DCI spec exhibition. In general a high end 3 chip DLP projector fed by a DVD or BluRay player.  |  IP: Logged Peter Castle Expert Film Handler Posts: 220 From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia Registered: Oct 2003 posted 06-22-2009 03:43 AM                     I agree that the quality of e-cinema is stabilising. (Yes, we are talking about e-cinema and not D-cinema.) In Australia, many of the non-Hollywood distributors use e-cinema to extend the magnitude of their distribution. "Slumdog Millionaire" had more e-cinema screens than 35mm. These are NOT DVD or BluRay (although I would be happy with BluRay), but hard drive versions at 720p or 1080p, and now often with 5.1 sound. Many cinemas use 1.3K projectors (DLP or LCD) but we have a 10000 lumen 1080p projector and the image is excellent. As Ron says, many 35mm prints are poorer. We find Dolby Digital tracks seem to wear badly. (Our screenings are 5 to 8 weeks after release.) We use SDDS as much as possible - 99% certainty of no failure. (A pity we are starting to see an increase in prints with no SDDS track - even on films that had one in the US.)  |  IP: Logged James B Gardiner Film Handler Posts: 91 From: North Altona, Victoria, Ausrtalia Registered: Feb 2009 posted 06-22-2009 07:06 AM                     e-cinema is an interesting topic. If done right, e-cinema can look very close to DCI. Especially on a DCI projector. (Don't forget the first version of DCI, MPEG2-interop is basically the same as the e-cinema formats used today) The bigger point is what is e-cinema's place in a DCI future? Does it even have one. Definitely Yes. As file-based production workflows and on-net only distribution becomes more the norm, e-cinema files, or everything that is not a DCI-DCP, will become more common and a daily concern for those cinemas who show anything more then DCI content. Now, all DCI makers push DCP conversion tools to answer this need. A great solution for some but has many problems. 12-3 dyas render times for feature length. (Depends how much money you spend on your conversion system. ie a 8 core monster $10-15k would do it pretty quick.) This also has the problems of frame blending if non 24fps as it has to be converted to 24 fps. You also have to be aware and change if need be, the audio levels and positioning, and have it right for the render, or you need to do it all again. Real time eCinema playback systems like seen in this video Cinema and Digital Media. Now and into the future. Let you do all this in real time while sitting in the cinema, where you intent to show it. No rendering, ingest and play. A better QA way to tech check the content before it goes to screen. And a more versatile solution especially for the single screening shows. I personally think these powerful eCinema type solutions will become as common as the DVD/Blu-Ray player you drag to a screen when you need to show those occasional shows based on domestic optical or file-based formats. James  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-22-2009 09:33 AM                     quote: Peter Castle As Ron says, many 35mm prints are poorer. While Ron was talking of sub-run 35mm prionts I have actually seen brand new 35mm prints that looked far worse than their D-cinema counterpart. We will never have E-Cinema over here in the States for main stream exhibition because this is where Jack Valenti is burried . Mark  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-22-2009 05:48 PM                     The main problem with E-Cinema as stated here is scope films because they appear letterboxed (as is IMAX digital). Well it's either that or lose image information by making a full frame copy which some distributors have done. I have encountred situations where as soon as a letterboxed e-cinema feature hits the screen patrons storm out demanding refunds and it's a problem made worse by cinemas that don't advertise that it's a digital persentaion. E-cinema should really only be used for content that normally would not get screened (like alternative films or other kind of entertaniment like opera, etc) but it appears that for the most part it's used by some distibutors to save money by not having to strike prints. Ok so they do pay for someone to encode the film into MPEG-2 format from the master copy but I doubt those costs are extremely high. The sooner E-cinema goes away the better. I find it strange that people agree to screen off a 1280x720 file (which most e-cinema content is) and on medium to large size screens. D-cinema should be the only acceptable replacement for 35mm film(well it's already happening). But in the end I guess as has been said here that a E-cinema presentation would better than a beat up print. Luckily I rarely encouter those these days.  |  IP: Logged

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