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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Convert me
Frank Bruno
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: houston, tx
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 11-24-2008 10:34 PM      Profile for Frank Bruno   Email Frank Bruno   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So after reading a few of the argument threads on d-cinema, I've decided I finally need to break down and see for myself. I'm film partial, in part because I can't really imagine going out to a theater and paying to stare at a video file. Provided a film print isn't too mangled or dirty, grain, changeovers, or lab splices don't bother me (CAP code is another story as it doesn't need to be there.) I can't buy digital's superiority just because it has different shortcomings than the film ones I have internalized as warm signifiers of moviegoing.

But I'm open-minded, and haven't really put digital to the test; as mentioned in another thread, I drove to a sister theater to check out their Christie projector. I wasn't really impressed by the 2 or 3D sitting through a few minutes of Hannah Montana, but I can see how that may not ahev been the best showcase film for the format. I caught one of those Fathom Events presentations of the old Star Trek Menagerie 2-parter at a nearby Regal, and that looked DTDS preshow quality.
quality. Again, 40 year old Trek episodes may not be the best test cases.

I can't seem to find a list of digital screens in the central/northern NJ/NYC areas. Does anybody know where one could be found, or know what digital theatres in my area are running what equipment? My Christie-having sister location was a bit of a hike, but I'm sure my own employer will at least have a few screens in NYC, and I may visit one of those. If anybody in the area knows where I can truly see "Digital Done Right" I'm open to the suggestion. At this point I'm really curious to see what the format can do.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-24-2008 11:03 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Take a vacation to SLC and take your choice of almost 60 digital screens in a 30 mile radius. Most of them look dam good! You can also enjoy almost 2 million Christmas lights in Temple square while visiting... even if you're not Mormon its still impressive to see. I wouldn't want to untangle those balls of xmas lights every year!

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 11-24-2008 11:26 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(and off topic a bit...definitely see Temple Square during this Holiday Season..major beautiful with the tonnage of light displays used!)

Like with me, I'm getting more converted to the Digital Spectrum in this presentation industry - so much to learn and also very challenging to learn a whole new animal.

Can't hardly wait when I can put it to use....but, time will tell.

-Monte

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-25-2008 01:31 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We just installed a bunch of them for Clearview. Here are those, plus the ones they already had (I'm sure I'm overlooking a couple):

NEW JERSEY
Kinnelon
Wayne Preakness
Ridgewood
Millburn
Hackettstown
Parsippany
Ocean
Succasunna
Morristown
Upper Montclair

NEW YORK
Chelsea
1st and 62nd
Yonkers Central Plaza
Franklin Square, L.I.
Port Washington, L.I.

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 11-25-2008 09:29 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I live 2 miles from Clearview Kinnelon, and have not been there in years do to poor presentation. I'll have to use my e-movie-cash free pass to check out the digital. Hopefully, it will be an improvement over their film presentations.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-25-2008 09:46 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Bruno
I caught one of those Fathom Events presentations of the old Star Trek Menagerie 2-parter at a nearby Regal, and that looked DTDS preshow quality.
Fathom Events use the pre-show equipment, not d-cinema equipment.

quote: Frank Bruno
I can't seem to find a list of digital screens in the central/northern NJ/NYC areas. Does anybody know where one could be found, or know what digital theatres in my area are running what equipment?
I don't know about other listing sites, but Fandango should tell you if the movie is in DLP, so just check the listings for the theater you're interested in. (Of course this won't tell you what equipment is being used, but at least you'll know if it's digital.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-25-2008 04:31 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mitchell, it's in house 6 at Kinnelon. "Bolt" is playing. It's an NEC 1600 with a Doremi DCP-2000 server.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-25-2008 05:48 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How much of a difference is there in image quality between, say, Christie, Barco, and NEC [dlp] projectors, all other things being equal and asssuming competent setup? (Some makes/models may be easier to install/repair or have greater light efficiency or whatever, but I'm not counting that here, since none of these issues would make a difference to the moviegoer.)

Also, I've seen posts here that suggest that the DLP chips come in different sizes; does that affect image quality, or just the amount of light that can be put through it (or something else)?

Finally, does the server make a difference in any factors other than reliability and operator convenience? Doesn't it just send bits to the projector? And are those bits the same if they come from a Dolby server vs. a Doremi server vs. some other server (assuming the same input file)?

I've been showing lots of video (NTSC, PAL, HD) for the last couple of years and I've made peace with it for material that was never shot on film or made available on film, but DCI really hasn't affected my life in any way. There are relatively few DCI houses in this area and all are in mainstream multiplexes, as far as I know.

From what I've seen of DCI, the picture is good enough to be an improvement over 35mm film run by popcorn kids, but I think that the 2k standard was standardized too early and is inferior to a good 35mm print. Also, it blows my mind that anyone has installed [dlp] equipment, since it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint, except maybe for 3D, and that advantage is only good until every other theatre has 3D capability as well.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-25-2008 09:46 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,

In truth, there is less difference between the projectors (from the theatre perspective) than the installers and their equipment putting them in...not to mention the screen quality, ports...etc.

It may be me, but I think the .98" chips have a bit more pronounced dark space between pixels than the 1.2" (the only two sizes currently in use in 2K DLPs for DCinema).

The imagers, boards are all TIs doing as is the software that drives them (so sayeth TI)...Lens wise, they are all on a level playing field too...particularly on the 1.2" varieties

Some will claim superior contrast from one brand or another due to some special process of manufacture...in typical cinemas...you aren't going to get any real contrast above 500:1 (And probably a lot less) and be fire legal. In a screening room or other controlled environment...there may be something to it.

I'll say this, when I've set up identical projectors within a complex using the same equipment...when you show an image out of the various projectors, aside from maybe size...they look IDENTICAL color wise.

So, to make a long story shorter...I doubt you could advertize that we use "ABC" brand projectors and get ANY patron loyalty over another brand. I've also never had a studio question or be disappointed that one brand was in over another in terms of image quality.

Steve

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-26-2008 12:08 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Lens wise, they are all on a level playing field too...particularly on the 1.2" varieties

Actually Chrisite does have two series of the same focal length lenses for the 1.2" dmds. One series is high brightness and the other series is high contast. The lenses look the same on the outside but optically accomplish different mtf curves. I'm not sure Barco and NEC are doing this or not... The Christie .98" lenses are all high contrast lenses.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-26-2008 07:12 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Barco has a couple of lens suppliers so it is possible, I'd think, to have a variance there.

Schneider was showing their new lens too...which I don't think is quite ready for prime-time yet but it sure looks like it is there.

Steve

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 11-26-2008 08:12 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Scott Norwood
Also, it blows my mind that anyone has installed equipment, since it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint, except maybe for 3D, and that advantage is only good until every other theatre has 3D capability as well.
On your 3D comment, it's kinda sorta correct. It won't be an advantage at some point when all complexes have 3D capability but it will be a HUGE disadvantage if you don't have 3D.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-26-2008 08:33 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Agreed that not having 3D in a market where many others have it would be a major disadvantage (if 3D actually does turn out to be more than a fad). But the end result of installing 3D on every screen in a given market is worse than the end result of not installing 3D on any screens in that market.

Situation #1: no one installs 3D, no money spent, no change in total ticket sales

Situation #2: everyone installs 3D, lots of money spent, no change or slight increase in total ticket sales (does anyone believe that any presumed increase in total ticket sales due to 3D would offset the cost of installing 3D DLP throughout a market???)

The only way that 3D benefits anyone is if a small number of venues in a given market are equipped for it and the public chooses to patronize those venues over other options due to the their 3D capability. Once the market is flooded with 3D screens, the advantage disappears and everyone is worse off as a result.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 11-26-2008 09:30 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with your 3D market analysis. The problem is that collusion is not allowed so once a competitor installs it, you are basically forced to install it.

For example, in one of our locations a nearby regal installed 3D last year. Since them we can't get a decent gross on anything that plays day and date 2D (at our location) and 3D. Guess what is getting installed in a few weeks.........

We don't want to spend the money but we have to especially with all the kids/family product that is going to be available in 3D next year.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-27-2008 07:49 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Lyle Romer
For example, in one of our locations a nearby regal installed 3D last year. Since them we can't get a decent gross on anything that plays day and date 2D (at our location) and 3D. Guess what is getting installed in a few weeks.........

Then again, there are no absolutes in this stuff. Whereas the 3D might have an advantage in most markets, like everything else, there will be places where it will play out differently and give no tangible advantage. This from the DI board:

quote:
BOLT was playing on two screens.
One was in Digital 3-D; one was 2-D 35mm.
The tickets were $12.00 for the 3-D presentation.
Tickets for regular shows are $9.00
This theatre has only one digital projector and it is beside a 35mm. There were more people seated in the 2-D house than the 3-D.

Todd
Riverside D-I

There are no guarantees.

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