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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Exit Slide Projectors, Enter DVD Projection (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Exit Slide Projectors, Enter DVD Projection
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 02:23 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While traveling back from vacation...(?).... I received a call from one of our theaters of the conversion from slide projectors to DVD projection.

I checked it out today, and pussy-footed away from it when I saw the quality of the screen image. The ads and the accompanying sound was burned to a DVD-R disc, and the DVD player was a conventional high-quality unit. The projector was the size of the Kodak slide projector. The manager told me the whole system costs about $8,000.

With the house lights up full, the image (which was a full 1.85 ratio) was at about 17 foot lamberts.

I know nothing of this new system we are using. From what I have seen, I was blown away by the quality. The hand writing is on the wall.

I am going to stuff a DVD in that thing to see if:

1. It will play
2. How good it looks
3. How good the sound actually is.

Anyone familiar with these new fangled units?

Paul


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 02:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The $8000 price you mention probably will buy a projector with a light output of between 1000 and 2000 lumens. 2000 lumens should be able to light an 18 x 10 foot matte white screen to about 11 footlamberts. What model projector was in use? What resolution projector? Who is marketing the system?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 03:13 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One thing to check on is the lens that comes with the $8000 projector. Most video projectors are packaged with a lens intended for a very short throw. If you intend to have the projector in a projection booth, you will probably need a different lens, at a cost of $1200 or more. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, Paul. Hope this is of some help.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 03:28 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John and Joe:

Hopefully, I'll get over to the theater later today and goof around with it, and find out more about it. But it sure was impressive. I'll get back to this tread and keep you updated as to what I find.

Paul

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Tom Wurz
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Highland,CA USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-03-2002 04:27 PM      Profile for Tom Wurz   Email Tom Wurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have any equipment info. but, NCN has a digital set-up at an AMC theater in Orange County California. I believe it's at the Block of Orange mall. Our NCN rep told me that the NCN techs are our there constantly adjusting the system.
Tom

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 05:25 PM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have a monster-sized "Proxima" projector at the church I attend, and once we changed out the lens to accomodate the throw from the sound booth to the screen behind the choir loft, the projected image is outstanding. We've got about a 75'-80' throw to a 30'x30' screen.

I am a member of the "Worship Support Team" (i.e. Sound Guys), and if I remember correctly, the lens swap-out cost us about $1,200.00 +/-.

Since this machine is esentially a video projector that we have hooked up to a computer, VCR, and DVD player in the booth, I've always had a question about the quality of the image that comes from the computer. Is the quality of the projected image signal from the computer directly related to the type of video card in the computer? (i.e. "Cheap video card in computer = bad picture on the screen")

If we swapped out the cheap Gateway video card in the computer to a decent card, would the image be better on the screen?

I still want to see a video projector fill a drive-in screen.

------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2133
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-03-2002 07:58 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"If we swapped out the cheap Gateway video card in the computer to a decent card, would the image be better on the screen?"

This depends on a few things.
What resolution will the projector project? 800X600 is probably the minimum acceptable and almost any video card will support this.
1024X768, or XGA, is better. There are several higher resolutions possible but probably XGA is adequate... much better than an SVGA video feed, anyway.
What are you projecting from the computer? If it's business graphics you can get away with 256 colors, again even the cheapest (reasonably current) video card should do that at 1024X768. For "real" images - either photos or video off the computer - you need at least 16 bit color and preferably 24/32 bit color. The ability to display high resolution color at high video resolution is limited on some cheap cards - it takes a lot of memory. (The projector will handle any color resolution you send it)
I expect your card will be able to handle 1024x768 and 16/32 bit color. This is pretty much standard now. What you get with the fancy expensive video cards is mostly related to computer games, they can draw 3D game graphics very fast so the games play better. A cheaper card will usually do the same job but slower. For showing pictures or AVI video there is no advantage to an expensive card.
So unless you want to play Quake in church on the big screen it shouldn't be a problem.



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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7991
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-03-2002 08:28 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Comparing an $8k video projector with a $500 slide projector isn't really fair, though. I don't know how much a xenon slide projector costs, but I'm willing to bet that it's less than $8k. And a good xenon slide projector should put out a higher resolution image than 35mm motion-picture film, with equal brightness. Of course this depends on the lenses used, which are often the weak points in the typical slide-projection situation...

This isn't to say that the video projector isn't useful and/or doesn't provide good quality pictures, just that the comparison is between apples and oranges. It also ignores things like maintenance costs, etc.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 10:15 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, I looked that thing over. It is a Hitachi CP-X325 Multi-media projector. Looking it up on the WWW, the resolution is 1024 x 768, and has 1600 Lumans brightness. It uses a 0.9" PolySi LCD, No. of colors is 16.7 million. It has a contrast ratio of 300:1 with Digital keystone correction. It uses a 130 W UHB lamp which lasts for about 2000 hours. It is compatible to NTSC, NTSC 4.43, PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, and SECAM.

There are no adjustments to fiddle with, except focus.

Very impressive on our screens. It is kind of sad when a 130 watt bulb beats a 1600 watt Xenon. It sure looked better than 11 foot-lamberts, but I have nothing to compare it with. That pile of junk we have is one of those old ORC Consoles with a vertical lamp, a crappy reflector, and an equally crappy filter.

However, the audio sucks - a WHOPPING 1.0 X 2watt mono amp, which is not used.

The sheet says it has an image size of 40 to 200 inches, with an aspect ratio of 4:3.

The DVD player was a Pioneer DV-341, and the SVHS output jack was used in this setup. The left and right audio output was feeding the cinema processors.

There was an mysterious little black box that "just happens to be there", but since there are no tags on the screws that say keep out, I guess I will take a peek to see what is in it. I am guessing it is a control box of some sort.


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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3661
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 10:24 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
I just put together a video system for our pre-show junk: Computer-powerpoint slides, S-VHS and DVD.

The video projector is a Mitsubishi LVP-X400BU that cost $7500. It puts a 32-foot wide picture on the screen at 64-feet of throw. The native resolution is 1024x768 at 16.7 million colors. It's a mid-sized LCD projector, with dimensions of 11.75"w x 6.25"h x 14.5"d.

Picture brightness and clarity are acceptable for what they are used for. And 5.1 audio from the DVD player sounds awesome in the theater.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-03-2002 10:40 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam, your screen is a little larger than ours, but the throw is about the same. How many foot lamberts you getting on your screen?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-03-2002 11:33 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps the "little black box" was some sort of line doubler? We used to show LaserDisc movies in the small house and sometimes in the big house at UA on Wednesdays during the morning and evening. Depending on the quality of the LaserDisc, it didn't look too bad. It passed through a Faroudja line doubler and was converted to progressive scan. We didn't use S-Video since LaserDiscs are not recorded with separate chroma and luminance thus would have made little, if any difference. I bet the Y/C separator inside the line doubler was ten times better than the one inside the LaserDisc players anyway (we would run changeovers with two LD players). It looked way better than 70mm film... no kidding!

OK I am kidding. But considering, it didn't look too horible.


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Dave Williams
Wet nipple scene

Posts: 1836
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-04-2002 02:06 AM      Profile for Dave Williams   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Williams   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a few models of DVD players that are progressive scan. YOu can also with the right equipment convert to HD and D1 stream through a pixel shift (floats the green off by a micron to smooth the digital image). When the image is cast properly on screen, it rivals film presentation in many theaters. MOst people really wouldnt know the difference.

Given time, like another year or so, film could be dead as we know it.

And more power to it. I would rather just pop in any old dvd and then take a nap.

Then reminisce about days of yore when we had to put film guard on film! It is so much better as a dvd cleaner.

Dave

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-04-2002 02:11 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I would rather just pop in any old dvd and then take a nap.

Why would they need you to pop in the DVD? The manager could easily do it on his way to the office to scam off some $$$ for himself. You would be outside of the theater, rooting through the dumpster looking for things to take back to your new home, which is the cardboard box right by the dumpster!


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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1498
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-04-2002 01:54 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm, porno theaters dumped film altogether over 15 years ago in favor of regular ol' video projection, have they been trying this too? (On-screen advertising is MUCH more obscene than any sort of porn! )

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