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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Lack of Concern for DLP? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Lack of Concern for DLP?
Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-14-2003 03:03 PM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it me or has the hype surrounding DLP gone away? I used to see ads everywhere for DLP and hear even the general public talking about how they wanted to go see the big films in digital.

Have enough people now seen DLP and decided that they don't care? Or is it that there just hasn't been many blockbusters lately?

Is X-Men and Matrix playing in DLP in very many places?

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1381
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-14-2003 03:27 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
X-MEN 2 is playing in DLP at the Chinese (Grumaun's) in Hollywood and the Village (Westwood). At least they WERE. Today both screens are showing THE MATRIX Reloaded in 35mm.

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 05-14-2003 03:43 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Four of the five DLP locations in the NYC metro (AMC Empire, Crown Marquis, Edgewater Multiplex, Loews Jersey Gardens) are showing X2 in DLP. The AMC Empire has 2 DLPs loaded with X2. [Big Grin]

The Crown Marquis plans to open Finding Nemo in DLP per the Crown website.

WB decided against DLP for The Matrix Reloaded.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1381
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-14-2003 04:03 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I should have added that FINDING NEMO will be playing in DLP at the El Capitan starting May 30. Theat fact was presented in the brochures I receive from that theatre (big slick flyers and ginat postcards).

I think altogether, 5 or 6 theatres in LA were advertising X-MEN 2 in DLP. And they had a special box in the LA Times display ad to hype that fact.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10701
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-14-2003 06:24 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not surprised by WB's move not to do any DLP stuff for "Matrix Reloaded." The certainly had to be underwhelmed by the DLP handling of "The Perfect Storm." The Matrix has a lot of the same dark, shadowy imagery that might start blocking up with compression artifacts as they did on "The Perfect Storm".

Then there could be the issue of the film being 2.35:1. IMHO, DLP works better for 1.85:1 films. It works best for computer generated stuff. Out of all the films coming out this summer, the only one I am tempted at all to see in DLP is "Finding Nemo."

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16221
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-14-2003 07:18 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Considering the release of new film projector designs by several companies I think you're right. I would also think that by now judging on the cost of the equpment that most prospective, and present customers have realized there is no economical way to keep up with technology on DLP, or any other high quality digital projection means, and have hence shyed away fomr the really high end stuff....Its still just way too expensive.
Mark

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-15-2003 12:44 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once you get DLP you're screwed because then next year they have a chip that's twice as good. Then the year after than yet another new chip and compression method. Pretty soon the new files will be incompatible since your projector is not designed to handle such digital goodness. Exhibitors are 100% positive that the film that is made 10 years from now (or longer) will run in projectors that exist today. No upgrades needed.

Moving to Film Handler's Forum.

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Aaron Haney
Master Film Handler

Posts: 265
From: Cupertino, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-15-2003 03:47 AM      Profile for Aaron Haney   Email Aaron Haney   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe: Next year? More like next decade!

Moore's law has so far NOT applied to DLP. They did their first theatrical demos in 1997 with Star Wars Episode I, and announced their first resolution increase in 2003. 6 years is an eternity in the electronics industry. DLP is moving at a snail's pace.

And as far as I know, they have not yet actually installed any of the new 2K chips in any theaters. If you go see DLP, you are still seeing the same old 1280x1024 version(s). [thumbsdown]

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2133
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-15-2003 08:50 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Non-film projection isn't going away, but the huge number of installed film projectors plus the cost of changing is going to forestall wholesale adoption for a long time yet.
I expect new cinema construction to be generally non-film in the next 5 to 10 years, if a decent projector and datastore package standard surfaces and is supported by all distributors. Once there's a unanimous decision to release all first-run product in digital format the majors will go this way IMO. Providing dual inventory doesn't cost the world, scanning a "film" feature to digital or recording a film negative from a digital source is fairly cheap.
To justify digital releases, there have to be exhibitors that can use them... and to justify exhibitors investing in hardware there must be product. Because the adeed cost to distributors is fairly low and most of the benefits of digital distribution are theirs, I expect that the evolution of a standard and the availability of digital product will happen before exhibitors start any whyolesale change to non-film. The current demo installations are hopefully going to prove the patron acceptability, reliability, and running cost savings available to exhibitors.

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-15-2003 08:59 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As with many products, the actual installation of an announced item isn't shipped until some time later.

TI has stated that the 2K chips work with the same boards currently in the projector head and same data stream coming from the server.
(There may have to be prom changes possibly).

It was going to be a promising summer season for DLP and there is a bunch of interest in my area to see movies on DLP. Calls and emails about big releases really pick up closer to a release date.

Charles is right that WB decided against the release in DLP. They also pulled Dreamcatcher earlier this year.

The Hulk was rumored, but Movieline International states that this will not be on DLP either, so the next title is Nemo and that may be it for a while.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-15-2003 09:37 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
...there is a bunch of interest in my area to see movies on DLP. Calls and emails about big releases really pick up closer to a release date.

Where is your theatre located relative to the Texas Instruments DLP R&D site on Chase Oaks Boulevard in Plano? I assume your theatre might be one of the first to get the new 2K projector.

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Bill Mantz
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 05-15-2003 10:25 AM      Profile for Bill Mantz   Email Bill Mantz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinemark Legacy is just right aross the street to TI you can walk to the office.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5198
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-15-2003 10:39 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am not sure how much public motivation there is for seeking out a theatre playing a title in DLP. I am in the trenches and among my patrons, the buzz has totally died down to the point that no one has asked us about digital for months now. When Lucas and Fox turned up the hype machine about digital with the release of SWII, we got quite a number of patrons asking us what digital was all about. When it played at the AMC Empire in both formats I went to see it and noted that both theatres were about equally populated at about 3/4th capacity; it didn't look like patrons were specifically choosing DLP (otherwise you would have had a full house in the DLP theatre with the leftovers shunted to the 35mm theatre).

If anything, my guess is that a lot of the initial interest in digital may have been more curiosity to see what it was all about. Once a patron walks into a theatre and sees that there is no spectacular improvement or even ANY discernible difference with what they see and hear compared to what they have seen and heard before in 35mm presentation (except possibly the clearer images and better contrast of the 35mm image) there is very little incentive for them to seek out DLP presentations. It is not like the introduction of color or 3D or CinemaScope where they could see and hear a spectacular difference.

Lack of patron drawing power may be DLPs worst enemy. It means it has lost any power to give the exhibitor who invests in it any economic advantage over his competition who is still running his 35mm projectors. Bottom line....if the technology doesn't wow the customer, the exhibitor is loath to spend a cent on it. Hell, look at how long it is taking to ratchet-up red readers in theatres....there are still not enough to "go wide." What's the delay -- it's because red readers mean nothing to patrons -- the exhibitor doesn't sell more seats by converting so there is little incentive for him to junk something that is already working and fully paid for.

Deee-Cinema would work if the entity that profits from it (distribution) shares the savings with the entity that doesn't (exhibition) but sharing profits and savings isn't quite what capitalism is all about. Personally, I am happy the fools haven't gotten past the greed to work this out because I would hate to see a technology being locked in that takes us steps backward in quality rather than forward; and secondly, because for sure whatever they work out won't include the art houses and second run theatres.

Then there's the third world.

Frank

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-15-2003 11:04 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's links to information about the Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) group, headed by Chuck Goldwater and Walter Ordway:

http://www.infocusmag.com/03January/digital.htm

http://www.infocusmag.com/03february/digital.htm

http://www.infocusmag.com/02june/digital.asp

http://www.uemedia.com/CPC/article_5092.shtml

Some recent views by NATO:

http://www.natoonline.org/UNIC-NATOSurveyUSAnswers.pdf

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-15-2003 12:32 PM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Frank about the public not seeking out DLP. I'm not a technical genius, and I'm not terribly picky about presenation (*coughadamcough*) but I DO work in the industry and I can tell a bad presenation when I see one. I can't tell much difference between DLP and 35. But truly... what motivation does Joe Public have to see it in digital if they can't tell the difference between a good 35mm presentation and a bad 35mm presenation?

I honestly forgot about DLP until I sat around debating on where I wanted to see the Matrix and I wondered if it was showing in DLP anywhere. (Apparently it isn't since they didn't release it in DLP [Big Grin] )

(the above has been randomly composed just so I could congratulate myself on starting a post that 1) got moved cause I was too stupid to put it in the right place and 2) got put into the Film-Handlers forum.... I haven't had anything intelligent to say about Film Handling in years... and I still don't!)

[thumbsup]

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