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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Digital Storage Space (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Digital Storage Space
Alan Dallas
Film Handler

Posts: 48
From: Prescott Valley, AZ
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 12-13-2004 06:09 AM      Profile for Alan Dallas   Email Alan Dallas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How much space(in Gigbytes) does it take to store a movie for DLP? Say your average 90min movie as an example?

Reason I ask is I was looking around for a RAID solution for a contract job I picked up and found this 6.4 Terabyte RAID solution and it got me to thinking about Digital Movie storage. Like... "Damn!! I wonder how many movies I could fit on that?"

BTW, I'm also an IT Systems Professional(consultant). Or at least that was my main vocation before getting into Film. [Smile]

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7966
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-13-2004 08:02 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Depends on the compression.

If I remember correctly, the Qubit (circa four years ago) was using ~40gigs to store one "print."

The Star Wars screenings in 1999 were served off a 300gig Pluto array (with, obviously, less compression).

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Matt Manalis
Film Handler

Posts: 27
From: Yamba, NSW, Australia
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 12-13-2004 05:54 PM      Profile for Matt Manalis   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Manalis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the way the guys over here in australia are talking we will all be running DLP by mid next year which i think won't hapeen for the obvisous reason of getting the copy of the movie too us. they are talking about satelite downloads at each cinema but still if every movie is 300gig it would take 3 days to dowload then needing the storage to hold upto possibly 15 - 20 movies at each location you would need a operating box full of hardrives. it seems silly at the moment to even be thinking about till we come up with a better way to ship or store these movies. you guys in the states have more of an idea of whats goin on with DLP so let me know how you guys are recieving the copyies.

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Jarrod Cocker
Film Handler

Posts: 33
From: a
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted 12-14-2004 07:59 AM      Profile for Jarrod Cocker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt.

I know for a fact that cinemas will be starting to use Digital Cinema in Australia by Mid 2006.

I know this this because my Current Company Director has offered me a job in a about 18 months time, installing the equipment into cinemas around Australia.. My Director is on the top of the board for the Digital Cinema rollout in Australia...

Currently, what is holding it back - is the fact that the Distributors dont want to contribute to the cost of Getting DLP Set up in Australia...

Whilst im currently looking for a full time position somewhere(Im a qualified IT Tech as well) Im going to continue to work where i am now (maybe a shift or 2 a week) until DLP is well and truly out in Australia

Cheers

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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-14-2004 09:58 AM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll have to check but like Scott said it depends on the method used. The standard now is MPEG, I believe, and a movie runs around 80 gig or so. When I get back to the states, I will provide some figures for you.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-14-2004 10:20 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jarrod Cocker
I know this this because my Current Company Director has offered me a job in a about 18 months time, installing the equipment into cinemas around Australia.. My Director is on the top of the board for the Digital Cinema rollout in Australia...

David Sanderson is Kodak's Regional Manager for Kodak Digital Cinema in Australia. He currently is located at the Kodak office in Coburg.

http://www.kodak.com/go/dcinema

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Matt Manalis
Film Handler

Posts: 27
From: Yamba, NSW, Australia
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 12-14-2004 06:07 PM      Profile for Matt Manalis   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Manalis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thanks for that jarrod i find that really interesting, whats going to happen when the multiplexes are the ones that can afford to go DLP and the independents are going to be left in the dark and people are going to want to goto GUE or BCC because "THEY HAVE DLP PROJECTION". i guess we will all cross that bridge when we get to it. thanks for the info guys

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5195
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-15-2004 10:31 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Matt Manalis
whats going to happen when the multiplexes are the ones that can afford to go DLP and the independents are going to be left in the dark and people are going to want to goto GUE or BCC because "THEY HAVE DLP PROJECTION".
I have never seen any study that shows people seek out a particular theatre because it has DLP equipment. Theatres did find out that patronage increases when they switched to Dolby Stereo; it was a dramatic difference the public could appreciate. Dolby even used this in their ads -- a picture of two theatres -- one had the Dolby Stereo logo on the marquee and there was a crowd at the box office, the other had the same title but with no Dolby Stereo logo and only a few people on that line. This is language that the exhibitor understands instinctively if he is a good businessman.

People choose to see a movie because the hype and publicity surrounding the release catches their imagination. Very few technical improvements, especially those that do not present a very dramatic difference in presentation that the public can really oh and ah about, have the power to make patrons choose to seek out that technology. Digital, at best can only hope to give the public exactly what they have seen all along -- same picture on the screen (just a figure of speech here, of course, we know it's not even), same sound. Very soon Joe Public will realize that they have been had....that all that hype about digital didn't amount to a hill of beans; there is nothing that gets the public more pissed than when they realize that they have been sold a bill of goods, as they say.

I deal with patrons all the time and aside from the occassional tech oriented individual, precious few ever ask what projection system is up in the booth; it simply isn't the issue that drives the choice for the public.

What moves patrons to make choices between the actual theatres where they want to see a movie is almost always simple creature comforts -- they want a theatre that is comfortable, clean and has decent picture and sound (which is easily accomplished by the film projection equipment that an exhibitor already owns).

So I think the more pertinent question that should be asked would be, "What are the big multiplexs that can afford to install digital going to do once they realize that their very sizable investment doesn't give then any additional audience drawing power (more behinds plopped down in their seats) than their competition? The competition, by the way, which didn't spend a penny on digital equipment, is still able to give his patrons the creature comforts they want and a flagship quality presentation that his patrons want to see? In other words, won't their accountants be screaming bloody murder when attendance remains the same after all that money thrown at digital equipment and they discover that THEY have been had?!!

Rule-of-thumb for any successful business: you NEVER spend money if you cannot be reasonably sure that it will continue to generate a better bottom line; I proffer that there is no guarantee that investing in digital will even pay for itself and return the investment in a reasonable time-frame -- THEN what do you do when you find out you now own equipment that can never amortize and you've junked your 35mm equipment that you have already paid for? Scream more bloody murder, that's what, and envy the guy who kept his 35mm projector! heh heh.

[ 12-15-2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 12-15-2004 12:09 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul K.
80GB is probably close.
If I assume 80Mb/s->10MB/s->0.6GB/min->72GB for a two hour movie. Variable bit rate could also be used so 80GB is probably pretty close.
How is it usually encoded?
Resolution
bit depth
4:2:0 or 4:4:4

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Chris Trainor
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Greenville, RI, USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-15-2004 04:43 PM      Profile for Chris Trainor   Author's Homepage   Email Chris Trainor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 and not 4:4:4. Tho 4:2:0 would be instantly noticable (red washout). 4:2:2 would also be compatable with the higher-end broadcast mpeg2/4 systems so they could share some of the same hardware. 4:4:4 I think would just be too expensive at this point. But maybe someone with some insider info will chime in.

As far as resolution I guess it could vary. The feeds used for the Regal live events are just plain old 4:2:0/1080i with bitrates around 24 - 30m/sec.

--Chris

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Dominic Case
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 131
From: Sydney NSW Australia
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 12-16-2004 12:06 AM      Profile for Dominic Case   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matt:-
quote: Matt Manalis
the way the guys over here in australia are talking we will all be running DLP by mid next year
Which guys would that be, Matt?

As Frank says:-
quote: Frank Angel
precious few ever ask what projection system is up in the booth
In fact, precious few are even aware that theatres still run 35mm film. No-one except Mr Lucas and Mr Mcallum would try to sell digital on the basis of attracting a larger audience with a better product. It's got to be sold on cost efficiencies. And they can't even begin to be discovered until there's a business model that has the distributors paying for the digital equipment out of savings on prints and shipping. That's what DCI are calling for, that is what has to happen. And therein lie a whole raft of problems that stand to shake up the very structure of distribution and exhibition.

But make no mistake, it isn't technical issues such as storage space, bandwidth (which can be rather faster than your calculations indicate, Matt) or image quality that will swing the argument. It's how the BUSINESS is done. (and security/encryption, but let's not start that one here).

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Paul Trimboli
Master Film Handler

Posts: 274
From: Perth Western Australia
Registered: Dec 2002


 - posted 12-16-2004 01:51 AM      Profile for Paul Trimboli   Email Paul Trimboli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ahhhh Digital Cinema in Australia!? What the hell? The question that comes to mind is why? Lets look at all its problems- Cost, size of lamp required, not the best picture, storage, distribution ect.. Now why if you were a cinema would you change to digital that will cost you more? You have to install the projector, the lamp to run it is a higher wattage then the 35mm on the same sized screen. Not to mention the fact the customer would not even notice so its not like the cinema is going to gain anything from it! Jarrod you sound like you support this!? How? I WILL SUPPORT it when its not an idea that is ducted taped together! Its just got to many problems to iron out!!!!! Only a couple of cinemas in Australia will foot the bill for Film-Gaurd so why would they install digital!??? [Confused] [Eek!] [Frown] [Smile]

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Andrew Shingleton
Film Handler

Posts: 63
From: Richmond, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 12-16-2004 03:51 AM      Profile for Andrew Shingleton   Email Andrew Shingleton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've heard quite a few people say for a fact that digital cinema in Australia is only just over a year off. And I've been hearing that fact for well over a year (in fact for many years). It makes me wonder how many more "one more years" there'll be before it really does happen.

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Paul Trimboli
Master Film Handler

Posts: 274
From: Perth Western Australia
Registered: Dec 2002


 - posted 12-16-2004 04:31 AM      Profile for Paul Trimboli   Email Paul Trimboli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds just like the introducing of Cyan soundtracks!! If they are still trying to introduce a change as simple as something like making people upgrade their soundreader to read new soundtracks how are they going to convince a cinema to buy all this new equipment!? Sure digital is 'out' in the states but has not really taken off in a big way as far as I know. Anyone with digital cinema in another part of the world find that the auditorium with digtal gets more people then the film? Are you advertising the fact a certain film will screen in digital?

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 12-16-2004 04:56 AM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is this thread not about storage and not a pro/con discussion?

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