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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Disney Rep says current "Dcinema""goodenough?" (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Disney Rep says current "Dcinema""goodenough?"
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9443
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2001 08:32 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IN the December 2000 BKSTS Image technology is an interesting article on the future of E cinema (they refer to it as D cinema) and a rather disturbing view expressed by Phil Barlow of Disney
On page 22 he talks about the costs involved saying that $75,000 is not unreasonable amount and maybe could be on" a pay as you go basis, with payments being made in the range of of perhaps 25 to 60 US cents per head" later he says "that the box office receipts must remain sacroscant-they should be shared in agreed proportions between studios and the exhibitors, and no equipment manufactureres should be allowed to get any money on a per capita basis" This sounds a bid of contradiction to me if there is a 25-60 cent per head rental on the projector
Later " Phil said that as far as he is concerned the quality of current D cinema projectors is fine and will continue to improve...for once the autombile had been invented, little extra effort had been put into developing the horse."

Later in the same article " Phil Barlow of Disney opened the batting by chooseing to attack Kodak, claiming that they were trying to delay the introduction of digital cinema. He said everything that kodak says about D-cinema is qualified by a but and they are refusing to realise that the existing business models will change. The supposed need for higher quality digital projected images which Kodak is expressing was just a means of putting off the day when film had to give way to digital images."" Denis Kelly reiterated that Kodak do believe that improvements in digital picture quality need to be made , for the future good of the industry, and that the current SMPTE work has highlighted those areas where improvements are needed. Phil Barlow said that the quality of the current projectors was quite good enough, and he would put them in 10,000 screens tomorrow if the price was right"

I find it discouraging that what was considered a quality oriented company that disney would be haveing a representative promoting a good enough attitude.
For futher reading Odeon theatres study of the actual costs of e cinema in a previous issue are very interesting in how ecinema actually will have a higher operating cost
The BKSTS is a organizaton I highly recomend any one serious in the cinema industry join or at least subscribe to there two publications IMAGE TECHNOLOGY and CINEMA TECHNOLOGY

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16112
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2001 09:01 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I just heard that Uncle Walt just turned over in his grave!! Is this guy a bottom line guy, an attorney, or an iddiot or something. Its because of guys like this that we have no 70mm anymore. Send the Film-Tech hit squad ASAP and Film Guard and feather him!
Mark


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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 02-03-2001 10:41 PM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark: Filmguard is such an exceptional lubricant that the feathers won't stick

What I find disturbing is that Disney is attacking Kodak. That's crazy.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6410
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-03-2001 11:05 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Throw him into a room full of spinning Technicolor reels!

Seriously, I think the REAL problems of "D-Cinema" are yet to be discovered. It won't be until those projectors are put out into the field, en-mass, that people will begin to find out things like what breaks; how expensive it is to fix; how customers like it and, last but not least, how they perform in day-to-day operation with popper jockeys or undertrained managers at the helm. (I'm talking at couple thousand machines running for at least a year.)

PS: What will people call them instead of "movies"? ..... "Digies"???

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 02-03-2001 11:06 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is the company that uses pro 35's in their screening rooms. so of course they would say that the quality of the Dcinema (D stands for discusting) was good enough. They are wanting to do things way to fast. They are also forgetting that some of these lamphouse consoles out there (CFS) will not work with these units because not enough light will be output. From what I hear the quality is subpar the closer you get to the screen. All I can say is stick with film damn it!!! At least for the next 20 years. Let our industry get back into shape. Hollywood needs to start consentrating on makeing better quality movies before they worry about if it's film or digital. Right now I just see it as an expensive nightmare.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-03-2001 11:36 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If digital cinema does not exceed 35mm noticably when it is introduced, then it is a failure.

The Disney guy made an analogy about trying to improve the horse once the automobile was invented. The automobile provided many, many advances that the horse could not ever hope to achieve. Digital cinema may provide better means of distribution and the destruction of TES, but the meat of it will be the picture quality. Why invent the car if it goes slower than the horse?

I can't wait to see all of the digital artifacts in Disney cartoons. Since there is a lack of detail in cartoons, artifacts will easily be seen. Try compressing a cartoon frame into a JPEG and you will see what I mean. GIF works better for solid colors since it is a lossless form of compression, but digital cinema will not use lossless compression by any means. But of course that would mean that I would have to watch a current Disney cartoon. Bleh.


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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5436
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-04-2001 01:37 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's right! For a demonstration...take a look at Fantasia 2000 on an IMAX screen. Jaggies galore!

...and just what the heck did they 'explode' the grain in the Sorcerer's Apprentice for? It looks rediculous!

------------------
"It's not the years, honey...it's the mileage". Indiana Jones

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-04-2001 09:36 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's face it, when Walt died the bean counters took over and things have not been the same since. All the values that were Disney are gone, and have been replaced by the god of the bean counters, the bottom line. "Good enough", means it will be a positive cash flow. I doubt that will be the truth, we'll see.

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut


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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-04-2001 09:46 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
'The biggest scare that I have is about digital projection - you know, this whole theory that George Lucas has about digitally projecting his films in theatres - I think that would be a big, big, big no-no, because ultimately it's just like watching the best TV screen in the world as opposed to watching 24 frames flicker through light which is a hypnotic and wonderful experience and should never go away'. - Paul Thomas Anderson.

That just about does says it all for me.


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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 582
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 11:00 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hate to say this as the 'Ethyloid' still flows through my veins, but a little over a week ago, I was on hand at the Colfax Theatre in northern California for a worldwide press demo of 'D' Cinema, mainly demonstrating Grass Valley Group's new 'Profile' cinema data server system, we had a JVC M-4000
three prism LCD 1.6 KW projector, coupled to the GVG Profile unit and displayed live action clips of HD Signal, It is the clsoest thing to film I have seen in the five demos I have attended to date! In fact, it was FLAWLESS! The sound was dirived from a Dolby E encoded master, then through D/A converters to Dolby 5.1 and played through the existing analog sound system, the sound was AWESOME!
The picture was very bright & clear (approx 1.66:1 ratio on a screen 11'6 h x 18'10" w, and a throw of 75 feet! The color rendition was excellent, the clarity and depth of field was excellent and the realism was better than any film I have ever viewed! The source images were loaded from HD Beta masters directly onto the GVG Profile, then sent directly to the projector. I found myself trying to look around the back of objects on the screen like I would with 3-D! And this was through an LCD machine! I anticipate seeing this again with a DLP projector!
The future IS here my friends! I still believe in Film, but I am afraid technology is with us now! The whole premise of this demo was to introduce the GVG Profile server and the Dolby E type digital sound handling system. The current Profile unit can handle up to 4 screens, with unlimited control as to showtimes, trailers, adverisements, and what titles play where with seamless digital switching! It has built in redundancy by virtue of sharing drives (plug-in modules)
that can have a 33% drive failure with NO noticable picture deterioration! Look in the upcoming broadcast and NAB trade magazines for details on this demo! As for cost, this was not discussed but you will see the GVG
Profile servers at all major D cinema booths at Showest including Christie & Dolby.

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Scott Brewer
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Alameda, CA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 11:34 PM      Profile for Scott Brewer   Email Scott Brewer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Isn't the JVC M-4000 a D-ILA machine, not an LCD?

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 582
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 11:43 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Scott, you are correct! By the way, here's a link for pictures of the set up, and I walked right up to the screen and there was NO noticeable pixellation in fact the picture was so clear, the perfs in the screen were all that was visible!
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=684390&a=11399581

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 11:59 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
still the cost is going to be the big factor. Plus this new sound technology will probably do away with SDDS and DTS. There go even more jobs. If everyone is so hept on this new technology then why don't we just go back to useing acetate film instead of polyester. At least we can enjoy the final days without all the static and massive brainwraps.

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-05-2001 12:22 AM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Heh, good points Darryl! Question for John, what is this Dolby E format? Is this the Dolby Digital encoding method for non-film (DLP) films?

-Mike

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9443
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-05-2001 04:24 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John a picture 18' wide is not a problem to produce but in the last 3 years the smallest screen we installed was 36' nad most were a 1.85:1 image 58' wide
The newest cineplex odeon in toronto has a 70' wide 1.85:1 image
even DLP can't do that
Audiences now will not accept smaller screens in any major market

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