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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Just saw SW3 in digital with Kodaks system. Wow! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Just saw SW3 in digital with Kodaks system. Wow!
Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-20-2005 10:18 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This was the very first digital presentation ( as far as I know)
in our area. In our local paper it showed a Kodak tech with a Kodak server but I think the projector was Barco.
Im assuming it was a DLP.
Very bright with very very saturated and vibrant colors.
The whole presentation was stunning. No visible pixel structure.
Very very clean and steady. You could tell you were watching a different media from film.

Maybe John from Kodak can jump in and provide some feedback on the system we were watching.
Id be curious to know:
What was the type ( DLP or LCos) and resolution of the projector.
What was the resolution of the source, Did it match the projectors resolution or was it higher.
Can you tell us a little about Kodaks roll and is Kodak involved with all the Digital presentations of this movie across the country or just our local theater being in Kodaks back yard.

Thank you, job well done.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4007
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 05-20-2005 10:30 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Any idea what size the screen is? Where were you sitting? What did they do with the preshow stuff?

Thanks for the report.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-20-2005 10:49 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im guessing the screen to be 40 to 50 feet wide.
I sat about 1/2 way back and their was a Kodak system intro type thing at the beginning. Trailers , Vantastic 4, war of the worlds, Batman begins.

One thing we need to remember.
This entire movie was shot using an HD cam. Anyone watching HDTV in your home will know the huge difference between watching a HD movie on HBO transferred from film (looks good, better then dvd but not stunning) verses something shot from Live Camera like a sporting event or one of the nature shows (stunning in your face, like your looking out a window) HDNet is a great HD channel with tons of programming all shot with HD cam. Stunning.
Thats why this movie looked so good.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-20-2005 11:02 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Alan Gouger
Very bright with very very saturated and vibrant colors.

BUT..... which one is correct... the digital or the film presentations being shown? Are the colors supposed to be so vibrant? I wonder whhat the opinion of the cinematographer is.....?

Re: the hd stuff we receive at home.... hd camera oriented stuff has a sterile-glossy look to it....video oriented stuff always has while film looks like film. Exactly how good a film looks depends on how good a transfer was done, film transferes to hd generally have a wider contrast ratio than camera feeds do. I.B. Technicolor transfered to hd looks terriffic and can be very close to how a given I.B. Tech film really looks.

Mark

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

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From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 05-20-2005 11:12 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That is a good question Mark. Just how does all this translate. Are there adjustments on the equipment being used that determines the color balance and contrast or what not like on home equipment or is all the adjusting done to the source prior to digitizing it. Are they overexaggerating the product to make it appear to look good.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 05-20-2005 11:45 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Color and brightness values are adjusted in the DLP projector, but only during setup. There is a variety of color configuration files available for different applications, and all these and many more settings can be adjusted - but normally not by the user, by loading what is called a PCF (Projector Configuration file). There are some standard PCF files which are commonly used for digital cinema. Star Wars actually came with a modified PCF which loaded a different color space file than what is normally used for digital cinema.
Barco currently make a 1.3k (DP30) and a 2k (DP100) projector which you can see here.
If the one you saw does not look like either one of these, it may be the older 1.3k model which used to be mounted on a Kinoton SK50 console. It looks like the FP50, except that it has the TI head mounted on front of the console instead of the 35mm film head shown in that picture.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-21-2005 08:01 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Alan Gouger
The whole presentation was stunning. No visible pixel structure
Were there any scenes bright enough to see it anyway? Even when I saw 1K DLP, the only time you could see the "Screen Door" effect was in brightly lit scenes.

Were there any "jaggies" on the text?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
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 - posted 05-21-2005 09:16 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Schaffer
Color and brightness values are adjusted in the DLP projector, but only during setup.
Then its certainly a safe bet that none of the DLP presentations of a given production will look alike... nor will any two DLP projectors look alike for that matter. My experience with LCD projectors has shown that slight variations do exist fromom projector to projector. Having any internal adjustments that can be user effected is a strong dis- advantage. The calibration and adjustment is something that should be handled in digital protocal within the productions data. Otherwise there is no guarantee of seeing a presentation exactly how the cinematographer and director establishhed it.

Mark

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Jean-Pierre Van Hoof
Film Handler

Posts: 21
From: Enschede, Ov, Netherlands
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted 05-21-2005 09:40 AM      Profile for Jean-Pierre Van Hoof   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Pierre Van Hoof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We run EP3 on a christie 2k dlp and I'm stunned with what I saw.
It's correct that the tech from the server (EVS cinestore solo) programmed a macro to call a different collorprofile and a different resolution. (1920x817)

Since we do not get 35mm prints when running Dcinema I can't tell nothing about the difference.
We run commercials and trailers from our Philips cp30 and take over to the DLP.
When the DLP starts projecting the audience in the theatre all said OOOOHHH ;-)After the show they even aplauded and that's something I never heard before ;-)(except the landing of a charter plane LOL)
A film like EP3 shot and mastered completely digital and projected by a DLP is off cause no match, quality wise, to a 35mm print scanned I think.

I was a 35mm quality junkie but now I've seen a outstanding presentation with a DLP and I'm convinced DLP looks great.

CU,
Jean-Pierre

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

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From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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 - posted 05-21-2005 10:10 AM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With a little research I found out it was a Barco 100 2k DLP.

Mark

You bring up some good points regarding brightness, color saturation ect and what are the proper intended levels.

On a related note: I find myself more immersed in a movie from my film system because there is nothing to adjust. You sit and watch.
On my video system I am distracted by thoughts of "should I turn up the brightness a little or lower the color". I end up tweaking the movie a few times through out the viewing instead of just watching the movie.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

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From: Lexington, KY, USA
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 - posted 05-21-2005 10:51 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Alan Gouger
On my video system I am distracted by thoughts of "should I turn up the brightness a little or lower the color". I end up tweaking the movie a few times through out the viewing instead of just watching the movie.


I have a DVD called video essentials that I use to set up my 32 inch CRT flat screen TV. It basically sets up the television to as close to what it should be. Once there I don't change anything. The quality is then judged by the production of the various DVD's. Saying that, shouldn't one of the required standards of DCinema be that all DLP based projection systems should be set up with the same industry based program to match the capabilities of the systems. Then all color, brightness, contrast and resolution related properties are all made in post production. So essentially nothing is ever touched on the DLP projectors except during a normal calibration check once a year or so.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-21-2005 01:37 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it(ti) looks good we should be happy.
Who knows what it is supposed to look like but one person really?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
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 - posted 05-21-2005 02:30 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I disagree. It isn't sufficient that the picture and sound be "good."

The ultimate goal of the exhibitor should be to reproduce the picture and sound in a way that replicates what the filmmakers saw in the studio or laboratory screening room. This is partly the responsiblity of the lab that makes the print elements or DLP master and partly the responsibility of the theatre (light levels, sound system alignment, color setup for DLP, etc.).

This is why we have SMPTE and other standards for film production and exhibition and why they are needed for [dlp] presentation as well. Even if the source is NTSC video, someone needs to set up the video projector (brightness, contrast, focus, tint, etc.) using the bars and tone that should be on the tape/disk.

What are the user-adjustable functions on current DLP projectors? How does one even align the bulb in one? It's not like you can just remove the lens and run it without "film" to do the preliminary alignment as is standard procedure on film projectors.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 05-21-2005 04:07 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You all completely misunderstood my comments about adjusting the projectors. It is not like they have big round knobs at the side where the operator can play with the settings. All the settings are only accessible with a notebook or touchpad on the unit. Both can of course be password protected. So, you are not at all supposed to "tweak" the settings in the cinema

During installation, the color coordinates of the projected primary colors are measured and entered in the setup so that the projector can correct any offset from the intended color values.
This procedure ensures that the projected colors are correct.
Color space and target color files can be loaded to create different basic "looks", but these settings of course do not overrule the initial color calibration, but are relative to the calibrated values. These files are also not chosen by the operator, they are specified in the projector configuration file which can come with the movie or be part of a preconfigured setting which is called up when the movie is played.

If you look at it from this perspective, there are actually no real "user-adjustable" settings in the sense of "operator-adjustable". Maybe I did not word this properly since I have worked extensively with our DLP on alternative content settings and see me as the "user". So the "user" in this context would be the technician who configures these settings, not the projectionist on site.
Initial lamp and reflector alignment is performed with a target tool that goes in the projector head and by measuring the light output across the projected field. You can not see the "naked" lamp and reflector like with a film projector.
But you can of course also focus and adjust the light field after changing a lamp on a projected test pattern of white.

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Mattias Ohlson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 180
From: Falun, Sweden
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 05-21-2005 04:46 PM      Profile for Mattias Ohlson   Email Mattias Ohlson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What I meant by good was
1 correct
2 good

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