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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » Sony about to release new cinema projector (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Sony about to release new cinema projector
Warren Smyth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 158
From: Auckland ,New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 04-27-2007 08:03 PM      Profile for Warren Smyth   Email Warren Smyth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apparently Sony's new "ultra clear" projector is expected to make its theatrical debut in August. They claim it produces 4,096 x 2,160 pixels.

I maybe entirely incorrect but I seem to remember a report attributed to Kodak, saying that 4K is about equal to 35mm film. If the above specification is correct, then D cinema maybe taking a leap past 35mm and halfway towards 70mm film, that is assuming that the originating format and technology matches.

Naturally, I realize that there are differences in the two mediums and one cannot make an accurate direct comparison. Also I think we are past the old debate of film verses digital, but this development seem very significant.

Has anyone seen the results of this development?

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sonymovies042507.htm

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12539
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-27-2007 08:43 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of things here....

Sony = Soon, Only Not Yet. Just because they say they are going to have something doesn't mean they are going to have it or have it any time soon or as fast as they claim they will.

4K is 4096 x 2160 and that is what is considered about the point when 35mm (1.85 with a mere .446 x .825") and the best quality video start to look the same in terms of resolving power...nothing said about color, contrast and such. Note, for 35mm scope...film gets to be not quite twice as good while video gets to be not quite half as good.

70mm remains several time better than 35mm on any format (different amounts if you are comparing 1.85, anamorphic or Super-35 origination vs. 65mm origination).

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5225
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-28-2007 02:09 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So in other words, just as the digivangelists said that the first 1.3K video projectors produced a picture BETTER than film and that film would be gone in 5 years, and then those same people assured us that 2K was definitely BETTER than film and the big "roll-out" was the beginning of the end of film for theatrical exhibition, now surely they will be shouting from the rooftops that 4K is MUCH BETTER than film and we might as well pack up those antique 35mm projectors and send them to the movie museum....what Steve summarizes means that in the end, what they say about this new 4K will STILL be so much hype and BS and remain a reality only in the minds of the people who will benefit financially from DeeCinema.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 495
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 04-28-2007 04:18 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes its true, film is done..you knew it was coming, now hury up and act now, for $50 I will scrap your film projectors and film transports for you. Especially those Kinoton,s, all junk. PM me for my services, I even take PayPal [Smile]

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 04-28-2007 06:47 PM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
we might as well pack up those antique 35mm projectors and send them to the movie museum
Sure...along with all those newly-antique 2K projectors! [Big Grin]

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-28-2007 06:54 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
No matter how much SONY strokes and entices us, based on their history of leaving a shitload of customers getting fucked and hanging for big-time $$$...i.e. Beta VCR, SDDS, etc, I wouldn't buy ANYTHING from them again, EVER!

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Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 593
From: London, UK
Registered: Mar 2006


 - posted 04-28-2007 07:10 PM      Profile for Caleb Johnstone-Cowan   Email Caleb Johnstone-Cowan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure you could market 70mm blow-ups as 'High Definition' film and people would lap it up.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9504
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-28-2007 07:49 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many years ago at a showeast seminar John Pytlak and DTS and myself suggested that this industry had a high def system already lets use it
as usual it fell on deaf ears

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10820
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-29-2007 01:15 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's falling on deaf ears because lots of businessmen are greedy.

A film projector can last decades. Businessmen don't want that. They would prefer it if the theater had to buy a new projector every few years. Digital can provide that! Cha-ching!

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Justin West
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Peoria, IL, USA
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 04-29-2007 01:46 AM      Profile for Justin West   Email Justin West   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bobby, you may be onto something there. Sorta like how the music industry killed off vinyl well before it's time...and now, look: their CDs are dying on the shelves! The studios are placing their bets that digital will save them the $$ that save the industry...and they may be ignoring the obvious. [uhoh] KNOW your history!

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-29-2007 04:13 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While there are many good arguments for and against digital projection the one argument against that I have a problem with is the whole 'it will be obselete in few years, just like home computers' agrument. Its really not a good comparison. I bought my first computer just before I went off to college in 1998. It was a IBM PII 450 mhz PC-I can't remember the rest of the stats but that tells you all you need to know. I doubt I could effectively surf most of the websites I go to now with that machine, and most certainly I wouldn't be able to run any of the games or other software I have. I upgraded once so far, back in 2001, and I'm near another upgrade. The critics of digital would say 'You see, in 10 years you had to upgrade 3 times!'

However, as long as the studios continue to provide DCI compliant files the current crop of 2K projectors WILL WORK INDEFINATELY. Fifty years from now so long as there are spare parts and so long as the studios are still putting out product in the same format these projectors and servers WILL WORK.

Now I am not certain that the 2K spec will last 50 years. I do know, however, that when a standards change does occcur it will be up to the studios-not the digital projection manufacturs. And seeing as how the current rollout is only being made possible by studio financing I don't think any standards change will be coming soon. For better or worse we are stuck with 2k and possibly 4k for quite a long time.

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Patrick de Groot
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sprang-Capelle, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-29-2007 05:17 AM      Profile for Patrick de Groot   Email Patrick de Groot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If Sony wants to succeed in the DC area, they should make it possible for other companies to license this technology and use it for their projectors. Just like Texas does with DLP.

http://www.sonybiz.net/res/attachment/file/12/1172517874712.pdf
http://www.sonybiz.net/res/attachment/file/26/1175002581526.pdf

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16422
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-29-2007 08:34 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Patrick de Groot
If Sony wants to succeed in the DC area, they should make it possible for other companies to license this technology and use it for their projectors. Just like Texas does with DLP.
Well, ya can't really liscense sopmething that still doesn't really work... The imagimg chips can't take the heat levels associated with the higher lumens that DLP projectors put out which is why JVC abandoned it the chip altogether for cinema. Anyway you could do the exact same thing with 8 2K DLP chips...

quote:
No matter how much SONY strokes and entices us, based on their history of leaving a ******** of customers getting ****** and hanging for big-time $$$...i.e. Beta VCR, SDDS, etc, I wouldn't buy ANYTHING from them again, EVER!

Eloquently said Phil! Not only have they alienated a bunch in this industry but they've also done the exact same thing in the Broadcast industry over the last 15 or so years.

quote: Justin West
The studios are placing their bets that digital will save them the $$ that save the industry
Justin...

Not even close! Digital's main 2 goals are to stop pirating and lower distribution expenses. Digital will do exactly both of those.

quote: Alan Gouger
Yes its true, film is done..you knew it was coming, now hury up and act now, for $50 I will scrap your film projectors and film transports for you. Especially those Kinoton,s, all junk. PM me for my services, I even take PayPal

Heck... I'll do it for a package of Oreos and a half gallon of milk [Big Grin] .

Mark

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10820
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-29-2007 11:29 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dustin Mitchell
While there are many good arguments for and against digital projection the one argument against that I have a problem with is the whole 'it will be obsolete in few years, just like home computers' argument. Its really not a good comparison.
There's a couple issues that make the comparison quite valid.

1. A film projector is far less complicated, easier to fix when something breaks or wears out and has reasonably standardized parts that haven't changed a whole lot in decades. You don't have the same situation with a digital projector.

2. There are various parts throughout a digital cinema system whose standards are in a constant state of change. Several years from now you could have various cable connectors, hard drive types and lots of other computer based parts that are no longer available. Good example of this: early DTS players. You can't support those things anymore. Toshiba hasn't been making 2X speed caddy-loading SCSI CD-ROM drives in many years. No one's making those i386 motherboards anymore either. Over the years countless types of computer parts have become obsolete or just discontinued.

Give any digital cinema system 10 years. After that decade is up, chances are the entire system or at least major parts of it will need to be replaced.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-29-2007 12:41 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Dustin Mitchell
WILL WORK INDEFINATELY
That is a bad belief on anything. I don't care what it is. It should never be stated because odds are it will come back to haunt you.

I would not even say the frame would last indefinitely. Essentially that projector is a computer. Hell I had to reboot it the other day because the touch pad screen was froze up. The big issue is the cost of replacing the components when something does go out. These things have to get to a level where a cinema owner can OWNE the projector and not rely on some over weighted service contract and lack of ownership of the projector.

I will say if anything the servers will be the first to go before the projector because they are totally computers and will need to be upgraded in the future because of various reasons.

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