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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » Sync audio problems when splicing trailers

   
Author Topic: Sync audio problems when splicing trailers
Ivan Plamondon
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Registered: May 2013


 - posted 06-16-2013 12:34 PM      Profile for Ivan Plamondon   Email Ivan Plamondon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I seem to have failed at my first attempt to splice a trailer onto our current feature film. Followed the "splice here" directive of the trailer and attached it to the frame just before the single number 2 (47 frames before the start of the feature). The audio however is out of sync, coming in about two seconds too late! Do I need to use the "offset" procedure of our DDP-2 program to correct?

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 2944
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 06-17-2013 12:28 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I understand how large format audio is sync'd up, wouldn't the trailer itself be the cause? Is there any kind of timecode on the film itself? (If the trailer plays out of sync but the feature plays with proper sync I would suspect this to be the case.)

If not, then the problem is the "cut here" mark was placed improperly. It has happened before even in standard 35mm (I had a premier of "Happy, Texas" get cancelled because the editors added a Miramax logo to reel one..and forgot to add blank mag track to the sound roll. Sync there was off a full 15 seconds.)

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 841
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 06-18-2013 07:23 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No Timecode on the film Tony. Could it be the number of frames programmed into the projector presets? Maybe you should subtract 48? That way the DDP will start 2 seconds earlier.

I am no expert and would be able to ask one in a couple of weeks if you like.

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Cameron Glendinning
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 841
From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia
Registered: Dec 2005


 - posted 06-18-2013 11:08 PM      Profile for Cameron Glendinning   Email Cameron Glendinning   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just realized that the above post made some assumptions that have no basis. Is it just the trailer that's out of sync? Are you also running the feature on mag? or do you switch over to a digital audio source.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3654
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-18-2013 11:38 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
"Splice Here" refers to the separation of the leader from the first frame of picture and should be 48 frames after the "2" frame. If you have attached the FFP to the 2-frame of the leader, then you have essentially removed 2 seconds of leader and the douser will open 2 seconds into the picture and the audio will be 2 seconds behind.

Also note that you will need to tell the DDP-2 where the audio transition between the trailer and feature should occur once you have the trailer audio in sync. This should be covered in the DDP manual, unless that manual is as useless as the DTAC manual was.

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Ivan Plamondon
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Registered: May 2013


 - posted 06-22-2013 07:35 AM      Profile for Ivan Plamondon   Email Ivan Plamondon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My iniitial training had me splice the tail section of the trailer at the "Splice Here" area (duh!) and attach it to the 47th frame of black (just before the last number 2)of our Feature movie. The idac (DDP-2 software)has the ability to manipulate the smpte timing by adding an offset (in this case, at the end of the Trailer) to make up for the extra frames. My plan at this moment will be to stop the projector at the end of the trailer, and manually move the rotor until the spliced section is where "picture start" would normally be. Once there, I can note the projector time and make the required adjustment. FYI, no time code strip on the film. All audio sync'd via digital audio on the DDP-2.

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Ivan Plamondon
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Welland, Ontario, Canada
Registered: May 2013


 - posted 06-30-2013 04:35 PM      Profile for Ivan Plamondon   Email Ivan Plamondon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is how the math ends up working out for adding trailers to our Niagara Feature:

Iron Man 3 Trailer has 3758 frames from the first frame to the last frame of black (does NOT include the 192 frames of numbers after "picture Start".

3758 frames plus 47 frames of black (before the first frame of the Niagara Feature)

3758 + 47 = 3805 frames divided by 24 frames per second = 158.54 seconds

158.54 seconds divided by 60 = 2.642 minutes = 2 mins and 38.52 seconds

2 mins and 38.52 seconds = 00:02:38.13

And this becomes the Total Region Length of the IRON Man 3 Trailer

Registered Length = 00:02:40.00
Offset = 00:00:01.11
Total Region Length = 00:02:38.13

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