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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » Kinoton FP-75E - Stutters

Author Topic: Kinoton FP-75E - Stutters
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6423
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

 - posted 06-10-2012 01:28 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just a strange behavior I noticed and wondered if it was a problem brewing, if it is a leftover from the last problem we had or if this is a "mostly normal" behavior.

When the projector (Kinoton FP-75E) starts up, the film begins in continuous motion. Then, after a few seconds it starts running with the usual intermittent motion. When it does, this, it takes about five seconds to stabilize. During this time the projector makes a stuttering sound and the upper/lower loops change size until the system settles and runs normally.

After this, everything runs fairly steadily. If you look carefully, you can see the loops oscillating but the system stays in stasis through the whole show.

Now... Here is where things get funky.
On my last show, which started only 20 minutes ago, the projector started up normally and ran for about half a minute then suddenly started stuttering again. The loops oscillated and chattered. Then, as suddenly as it started, it settled and ran normally.

As of my last check, a few minutes ago, everything is running all right but, now, I've got this question.

Is this within range of normal behavior or do I have a problem brewing?

P.S. -- Just went to check the projector a minute ago. The sound is out of sync. The Aquilla T/C generator is running about 10 or 15 seconds ahead of the Fostex digital playback unit.

No, this ain't normal... [Frown]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12204
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

 - posted 06-10-2012 02:00 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First off...if this is an FP75E, then this is the wrong forum since it tops out at 5/70. If it is an MP75E then this may be the right forum since it tops out at 8/70

What you describe is mostly normal but it might also be a clue as to the other problem. The shutters in an "E" projector have an idle speed and then one dictated by the pulse/tach that lets the shutter know how fast the sprockets are running. The intermittent movement also is using the pulse/tach to know when to pull down. The intermitttent also knows when the shutter is blocking the aperture or isn't. The intermittent will not pull down if the shutter is not blocking the aperture.

Since the shutter has a bit of mass (and in an 75 series it is also driven by separate inverter, belt and has to deal with the physics of the shutter changing speed. That is, it will take time for it to react to the sprocket speed change...which it is fluctuating in speed, one is bound to see the loops stutter until the new stable speed is settled upon. Again, due to the masses involved, for some speeds, it may never completely stabilize but normally for regular 24fps type is in the sweet spot of the system, by design so it should stabilize.

If your sound syncs to the projector...then again, the pulse/tach is what is driving that with a quadrature output.

It seems to me that from the symptoms you describe, I would start my investigation with the tach, and its wiring...make sure it is being driven properly and is putting out clean pulses.

Also, check your belts since if they have too much will cause the whole system to have an imprecision that you describe.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6423
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

 - posted 06-10-2012 02:23 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it's 8/70.

The stutter at startup, I thought was normal within limits. I wasn't too worried about that.

The stutter AFTER startup had me worried but worn belts sounds like a likely cause. So long as I have some idea of what's going on, I'm not too worried. I can check the belts at the end of the day, today. If they are going slack, I can tighten and/or replace them at the next opportunity.

The time code doesn't always run PERFECTLY in synch, to the frame but it's usually close enough that you have to look closely in order to tell. 15 seconds is way more than there should have been. Again, a slipped belt might explain that, too.

Thanks! [Smile]

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6423
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

 - posted 06-10-2012 07:48 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BTW: Figured out the sync issue...

Some dummy accidentally hit the 25 F.P.S. button. [Embarrassed]

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