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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » IMAX unique building methods (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: IMAX unique building methods
Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-23-2006 11:39 AM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I AM WONDERING IF ANYONE ELSE IS DOING THIS. I DEVELOPED A WAY TO BUILD IMAX MOVIES WHILE OTHER MOVIES ARE PLAYING AT THE PACE OF ABOUT 3 MINUTES A REEL. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE BUILDING IMAX FILMS DIFFERENLT THAN TRADITIONAL METHODS?

IT INVOLVES BUILDING ONTO THE IMAX MAKE TABLE INSTEAD OF BUILDING ONTO THE TAKEUP UNIT. WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD OPEN SEASON IN JUST UNDER 6 HOURS ( INCLUDING THE PROJECTIONIST DOING HIS NORMAL THREADING ETC)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17590
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-23-2006 02:52 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
PLEASE DO NOT YELL WITH ALL CAPS.

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Dan Suomi
Film Handler

Posts: 53
From: Aurora/Oswego, IL
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 09-23-2006 03:57 PM      Profile for Dan Suomi   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Suomi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even with building it on the Makeup table how are you getting 3 minutes a reel? You must be winding at full speed, does the film wind tight?

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3632
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-23-2006 04:54 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Building up onto the reel unit is just simply the wrong way to build up. For one thing, it takes f-ing forever. For another thing, the wind tension is uneven because you keep stopping to change reels.

The correct way to build up is to place a platter on the motorized side of the [QTRU] makeup table and build up the film backwards onto it (with the film feeding from the core on the non-motorized side).

Then you wind the backwards-wound film from the platter on the makeup table to a platter on the reel unit (QTRU) or mount and rewind it (MK-II) to get it properly wound and at a normal tension.

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Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-23-2006 06:58 PM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are building from a 35 makeup table onto the imax QTRU makeup table using the motor from the IMAX table. We only use the 35mm makeup tables arm for an extender and a holder for the individual reels.. We stripped the 35 makeup table of all its components and put the reel from the non motorized side of the imax table and retrofit it to fit on the 35mm makeup table arm.

The QTRU isn't long enough to build onto the big platters.
Your method only works on the smaller platters I am guessing?

We are going at about 2/3 speed and average about 3 minutes 15 seconds a reel. As far as tension goes this is how we have built our last 3 films (Superman, Ant Bully, Poseidon) and have had no issues with tension on the inital run

Adam as far as time, if you can find a way to build a movie faster than 3 minutes a reel I would absolutely love to hear about it!

Anyways we are able to build movies while we are open and it works great for us.

If anyone wants I can email them a picture for clarification.

Sorry Brad didn't realize I was in caps.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3632
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-23-2006 07:57 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jason Setzer
The QTRU isn't long enough to build onto the big platters. Your method only works on the smaller platters I am guessing?
Yep. Build the longer films in two or three sections.

quote: Jason Setzer
as far as time, if you can find a way to build a movie faster than 3 minutes a reel I would absolutely love to hear about it
I'm not in it for the speed. I'm in it for doing it right. Uneven winding can cause cinch marks. Even for the DMR films, I never needed more than a shift to assemble one. My booths all had viewing galleries and the kiddies liked watching me assemble prints while waiting for their shows.

quote: Jason Setzer
If anyone wants I can email them a picture for clarification.
Please upload and post one. I can't think of any reason to use anything other than the Imax equipment to build a print. (I *have* seen people use 70mm house reels to prepare Imax trailer packs on a rewind bench, though that makes complete sense.)

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Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-23-2006 08:55 PM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam first off I am not typically a debater (Esp since I am new to film-tech).So in this aspect I am only arguing for the fact that this works for us and has never caused us a problem.I am not saying anyone else should do this, the initial topic was to see if anyone had made any theatre-specific changes that has improved the way ( via speed, quality, etc) they build IMAX prints. This method is used by us and one other IMAX in Florida.

We aren't in it for speed either, as stated before we aren't running full speed and this way simply works, the winding is constant and even.

There is innovations in all industries all the time, I just think Imax should have made their table 2-3 feet longer ( I believe the makeup tables were designed when Imax only showed movies under an hour) so that this method would be feasible without non-Imax equipment. Our method is the same as if putting an extended arm on the makeup table that could hold the 70mm reels.

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[ 09-23-2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Jason Setzer ]

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 09-24-2006 11:44 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While loading each reel to the reel unit does take a long time (10 minutes per reel), the tension seems perfectly fine. No cinch marks, and only takes the one projector pass to remedy, anyway, if it's slightly uneven. It's when I load from the non-motorized side of the build-up table to the motorized one (either 60-minute platter, or plastic core) that I get really, really tight winding, and bulging during its first run. The non-motorized side might be able to be adjusted for tension, but I haven't the foggiest notion how to do that, if it's possible.

Besides, I'm not salaried, so the more hours it takes to build a print, the better! Especially if we're not in a rush, having received the print early.

I once tried loading a print from the non-motorized side to a ring on a 60-minute platter, and I could easily do the first 18-19 reels in a couple hours. Then, carefully, lifting the ring and physically pushing the print to a larger platter on the QTRU; I had no problems. The print pushing technique is one we had to get used to, quickly, what with the Ant Bully/Superman fiasco. Not enough 150-minute platters, and odd numbers of consecutive Ant Bully shows in a day. Swapping nightmare!

quote: Adam Martin
and build up the film backwards onto it
This would require (for instance in feature-length 3D DMR's) pre-rewinding upwards of 80-90 heads-out reels before loading them to the ring, and THEN loading them to the reel unit. And you could do that in a single shift?

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Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-25-2006 05:34 PM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brian the method of builing first onto the MUT and then onto the QTRU saved you a couple hours that for sure. As far as you not being on salary I can def understand you wanting to get all the extra hours! On the other hand wouldn't it be nice to have been able to build Superman in an 8 hour shift lol? We all got Superman at the last second and I am sure alot of us had to cancel the last 2 days of Poseidon because of it!

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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 09-25-2006 07:13 PM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brian Michael Weidemann
80-90 heads-out reels
How many frazzin reels are there in a feature length IMAX film?

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Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-25-2006 08:45 PM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Figure roughly each reel is about 3 to 3.5 minutes of film. So a typical 90 ninty minute feature would have 30 reels (60 if 3d) and a long one like Potter would have close to 100 reels if 3d

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
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 - posted 09-25-2006 09:30 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, on Superman we were pressed, and indeed cancelled Poseidon shows. We had two screenings of it a week before its release, too. I did the MUT build on that one, and it saved vital hours. And sometimes sleep is better than overtime in the middle of the night.

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Jason Setzer
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: Tampa, Florida
Registered: Aug 2006


 - posted 09-25-2006 10:24 PM      Profile for Jason Setzer   Email Jason Setzer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All in all I was trying to devise a way for my guys not to have to build at 4am in the morning. Even the hourly guys were very happy for 2 reasons
1) They only have to stay over for the programming runs
2) The build days now go by very quickly due to them building while working a normal shift.

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Charles Greenlee
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 801
From: Savannah, Ga, U.S.
Registered: Jun 2006


 - posted 09-28-2006 07:39 PM      Profile for Charles Greenlee   Author's Homepage   Email Charles Greenlee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
30 reels, crap. And I assume their built in a similar fashion to what I'm used to? So it takes the same about of time to wind 6 reels of IMAX film as it does 35mm? The reels are the same footage? If so, you guys are at it all day for just one film, I really feel for you. Where's the guy with the whip to stand behind you and motivate when needed?

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Tim Rectanus
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Jul 2005


 - posted 11-07-2006 10:14 AM      Profile for Tim Rectanus   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Rectanus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jason Setzer
I just think Imax should have made their table 2-3 feet longer ( I believe the makeup tables were designed when Imax only showed movies under an hour) so that this method would be feasible without non-Imax equipment. Our method is the same as if putting an extended arm on the makeup table that could hold the 70mm reels.
I agree but since there wasn't a new MUT coming out of IMAX we modified ours to accept 72" platters. We put the extended arm on and moved the freewheel mechanism out 2 feet. The picture below is the MUT with one eye of Ant Bully on it. (Sorry it isn't the best quality) I meant to take a picture with Superman on it but I had already broken it down before I remembered what I was going to do, but I digress. The only problem we ran into was that the 72" platters were rubbing on the table after they were filled up half way or so. So we starting using the Plate w/ the core adapter on the motorized side (giving us the clearence we needed) made two pins to stick up out of the holes, line up the platters and drop them down, I have pictures but won't upload unless there is interest. It all works well. We have been using it for the better part of a year now and there are a few things that you have to get used to and remember but that is the case with most anything new, right. I normally do a reel in just under 5 minutes, splice-wind-cut-splice. It also means there is no moving platters in the middle or "pushing" onto different platters. I don't go full out on the speed b/c I don't want to burn out the motor with the extra weight on it.

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quote: Brian Michael Weidemann
The non-motorized side might be able to be adjusted for tension, but I haven't the foggiest notion how to do that, if it's possible.

If you take the bottom cover off of the MUT, you can adjust the freewheel tension easily. The threaded washer on the bottom of the mechanism changes the tension on the spring. Righty Tighty Lefty Loosy.

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