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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » Differences between DKP70mm and RPG prints (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Differences between DKP70mm and RPG prints
James B. Openshaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 106
From: Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 08-26-2004 10:08 PM      Profile for James B. Openshaw   Author's Homepage   Email James B. Openshaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It appears that I've noticed something with films distributed from RPG, they're filthy. No matter how many times I change out the PTR's, wiper bars, and wiped down the field flattener after each show, it seems that the on-screen crap isn't reduced by that much. The prints we receive from DKP70mm we've had practically no problems with concerning dirt (new or used prints)

Has anyone else had similar experiences with RPG prints (e.g. Lewis & Clark, Bugs, Mysteries of Egypt, Forces of Nature) and found methods to get most of that crap off of them? Also, could anyone possibly tell me what DKP could be doing that RPG isn't?

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Dan Suomi
Film Handler

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From: Aurora/Oswego, IL
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 08-26-2004 10:57 PM      Profile for Dan Suomi   Author's Homepage   Email Dan Suomi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gosh I wish I could respond anon on here. I'll say this your not the only one who has issues with RPG films. I'll leave it up to others to post thier comments, I'm just not comfortable of doing it on here. You should go check out 1570.com for comments about RPG.

As to fixing the problem, you are doing everything right in trying to minimize the problems you are having. Keep doing what you are doing and eventually things should clear up for you.

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Stewart Anderson
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From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
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 - posted 08-29-2004 01:05 AM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
RPG STRIKES AGAIN!!!

We have had trouble with stretched splices in the past. Now because of our new film Bugs 3D being tape spliced from RPG I thought I would just replace the splices between reels ONE and TWO with ultrasonic, because these are always the splices that stretch due to most of the tension being present on the beginning of the film during rewind. I replaced only these splices with ultrasonic because I knew RPG was already going to be upset with me for replacing even those two splices. Now, I also checked all of the splices on that movie and I always check tape splices on a biweekly schedule. But after only TWO DAYS of running the film, the splice between reels TWO and THREE stretched. un-freakn-believable!

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Gordon McLeod
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 08-29-2004 07:41 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stuart said"I thought I would just replace the splices between reels ONE and TWO with ultrasonic,"
Well I hope you inserted 2 frames of black to replace the two frame you had to cut out to make the ultrasonic splice
If you didn't then you have trashed a print as sync will not be maintained in many other systems

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Stewart Anderson
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From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
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 - posted 08-30-2004 09:34 AM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
of coarse. [beer]

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Adam Martin
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From: Dallas, TX
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 - posted 08-30-2004 05:49 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
If you didn't then you have trashed a print
And if you did, you trashed the print. A black flash at every reel change in a 15/70 print is a 1/12-second flash every three minutes. Might as well Crap Code the print while you're at it.

A print with slugs would be refused by my booth.

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Brian Michael Weidemann
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From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
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 - posted 08-30-2004 08:26 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's wrong with just re-TAPING a splice that's stretched or going bad? Ooh, ah ... ultrasonic, ultrasonic. Big deal! [Razz]

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Kyle McEachern
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From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 08-30-2004 09:35 PM      Profile for Kyle McEachern         Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Brian Michael Weidemann
ultrasonic, ultrasonic. Big deal!
That's a debate that's raged many times over...but yeah, if a tape splice is stretched, it should get re-taped, because as Adam said, 2 frames of black every 3 minutes = unacceptable. And not only that, properly-made tape splices will last for months/years without problem.

As for RPG...I don't think I've ever met a person who has preferred them to DKP. All that you can do is clean up the prints with PTRs and/or ask for prints to come as reels and not pre-built so you don't have to deal with their building methods.

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Stewart Anderson
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From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
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 - posted 08-31-2004 12:36 AM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think the life of a tape splice is variable, it depends mostly on the equipment. And on a MKI TYPE of reel unit the most risk of stretching is at the beginning of the film (due to tension on rewind). On my equiptment (from CDC) I'm screwed if don't stub out the splice and screwed if I do (for the reasons you guys listed). Now the splice that caused a reel replacement looked perfect when it was first wound on to the platter, but after ONLY TWO DAYS it stretched. So in my case I think I'm LESS screwed in stubbing out splices at the beginning of the show. Or if I can convince my bosses of spending the extra money for ultrasonic spliced prints or non pre-built print. Like that'll ever happen [Cool]

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Jack Ondracek
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From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
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 - posted 08-31-2004 02:12 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no clue what film you're running... or what your projectors are..

but...

how can you be putting so much tension on your film that it causes tape splices to stretch? I thought 70mm equipment was supposed to be pretty easy on film?????

How can it differ that much from 35? I have no stretching problems here.

Education time, I guess! [eyes]

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Gordon McLeod
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 08-31-2004 09:36 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I check all prints with tape splices every two weeks for stretching or if I see them flashing on the port as they go through
As a rule we don't accept any new print preassembled but do it ourselves with the UltraSonic
The MK1 design by itself is not as much of an issue if it wasn't for the fact that our prints are stored on edge and rolled out of the booth to a storeroom down the hall and to prevent excessive tear dropping we use the highest rewind tension we can get

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Brian Michael Weidemann
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 - posted 08-31-2004 02:49 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The projector itself is gentle on film. It's the higher speed rewind time, after the show, that tends to cause the stretching, I believe.

I work with the QTRU (center-feed) unit now, so I don't have splice issues that can arise during rewind (since there's no rewind stage). If any splice will stretch, it's the one holding the leader to the slug, which just sits there under tension between loading the show and starting the show. If no tickets are sold for that first one, then that splice is being pulled on for a good three hours. But then, this one is easy to check and replace, if need be.

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Brad Miller
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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
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 - posted 08-31-2004 03:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Not being an IMAX guy I am going to chime in here anyway.

When I visited Adam's booth in Sacramento, the first thing I noticed was that his MKII was rewinding very slowly, perhaps only 2-3X normal speed. However all other rewinding IMAX transports rewinding insanely fast. I asked him and he said he intentionally set it to rewind slowly since they always alternate movies.

Really, this should be standard practice. I saw no cinch marks on screen and the rewinding was slow and gentle. He also had no issues with tape splices stretching.

James, aren't RPG prints commonly Photoguarded?

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Gordon McLeod
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
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 - posted 08-31-2004 06:26 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad said"perhaps only 2-3X normal speed. However all other rewinding IMAX transports rewinding insanely fast. I asked him and he said he intentionally set it to rewind slowly since they always alternate movies.

Really, this should be standard practice. I saw no cinch marks on screen and the rewinding was slow and gentle. He also had no issues with tape splices stretching.

James, aren't RPG prints commonly Photoguarded? "

The original MK1's had a 3 phase variac control the power to the motor as well as a dynamic breaking control to provide tension
Usually the balance of tension to speed ended up with about a 10 min rewind for 40min of film to achieve a tight enough wind that the platter can be stood on end for storage

RPG like others photoguards on request only and to my knowledge RPG will ultrasonic splice if requested but if they could get the rest of there consistancy up it would be nice

Also not every place alternates movies projectionists don't get to choose the schedule nor the prints they have to show [Mad]

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Stewart Anderson
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From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
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 - posted 09-01-2004 09:51 AM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the CDC "version" of the MK1 there is a 1 to 10 scale for rewind. I don't know what the reel MK1 is like... Anyway we only rewind at 5 1/2. This will rewind a 40 min movie in about 20 minutes (2X speed). But the stupid thing still stretches. [bs]

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