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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » Anyone else see a 15K do this @ 500 hrs? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Anyone else see a 15K do this @ 500 hrs?
Stewart Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 105
From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 04-26-2004 06:37 PM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is a Ushio 15K that dimmed very suddenly at about 540 hours [Roll Eyes] ... Anyone seen this happen before or know why [Confused]

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Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-26-2004 07:11 PM      Profile for Jon Miller   Email Jon Miller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like it suffered a gas leak from seal failure. The blackness is from the electrodes burning up from lack of xenon pressure and the resulting air infiltration. I experienced that with a 2K over a decade ago; the lamp turned a marble-ish blue and black color. Better to go "pfft" than "blam!"

Edit: this is the lamp...

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[ 04-26-2004, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Jon Miller ]

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Brian Michael Weidemann
Expert cat molester

Posts: 944
From: Costa Mesa, CA United States
Registered: Feb 2004


 - posted 04-26-2004 07:53 PM      Profile for Brian Michael Weidemann   Author's Homepage   Email Brian Michael Weidemann   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I've seen that before in a PerkinElmer 15K, dimmed and blackened, utterly useless. We had one once that blew some seal somewhere and filled with water (a miniature aquarium with no fish!). And then there was the one explosion that happened at less than 100 hours (that was a fun clean-up!) ... all three of these were PerkinElmer lamps, as I recall.

Never had one problem with an Ushio, though! (Knocking on the proverbial wood.)

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-26-2004 10:07 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, definitely a gas leak/seal problem.

I also have always had great performance and "luck" with Ushio 15k & 20k lamps. Wouldn't give you a plugged nickle for Duratest. Had many spring water leaks into the bulb and then blow up...ususally taking the liquid-cooled refector with it.

>>> Phil

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3835
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 04-26-2004 10:17 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like I've had the opposite experience to Phil's. Duratest 15Ks never gave us a problem at the Caesars Palace Omnimax. Had one blow up on me during my time there--about 30 minutes after a bulb change and IMAX service. Nice slushy clean up job but fortunately it didn't take out our reflector or cold mirrors.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16111
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2004 10:30 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stewart,
These failures sometimes do happen with any lamp but are VERY frequent in the Perkin Elmer club. Hopefully your boss in charge has not resorted to buying from Perkin Elmer. Using their lamps a sure guarantee to more down time and less profits(no joke!). I'd stick with Ushio lamps for your operation.... you had been getting 1200 hours easily out of them and thats pretty darn good for a 15K lamp. You will see occasional failures like this once in a blue moon.
Mark

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Stewart Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 105
From: Sandy, Utah /United States of America
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 04-26-2004 10:32 PM      Profile for Stewart Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Stewart Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Makes me wonder how much time it would have taken this lamp to blow-up [Eek!] ...

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16111
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2004 10:48 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A lamp that looses a seal generally does not blow up because all of its internal pressure has escaped very rapidly. I suppose that if conditions of gs pressure and seal wekining are just right that it might but I can't ever remember a lamp that has lost a seal and then blown up.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9442
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-28-2004 09:23 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark the original post says it was a Ushio that failed and that is rare
Also never had any problems with the durotest 15K lamps
The ushio offers a bit more light but I find it has a hot spot that doesn't defocus as well also the water pressure must be a lot higher

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2389
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 04-28-2004 09:28 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perkin Elmer bulbs are no more. the division was sold last summer. The new owner is ASP with the bulbs made in China.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16111
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-28-2004 10:02 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"The ushio offers a bit more light but I find it has a hot spot that doesn't defocus as well also the water pressure must be a lot higher"

Gord,
Have done setups of that system with the USL light meter getting 28fl plus or minus 3 fl at the edges and corners(3D system). Thats pretty darn good IMHO and thats with the lamp running at 12kw. I would suggest that your mirror and or optics are at fault as far as the hot spot go, perhaps just not functioning together too well. Ths CDC system has optics of much newer design than many of the old IMAX systems. Also from what I've seen of the SLC IMAX so far the CDC optics are also much much sharper corner to corner.

So far no problems anyplace that I am aware of with running the USHIO at the reccomended water pressure levels. All CDC machines and most Iwerks 15/70 installs all run USHIO lamps. If the water circulation system is properly designed in the first place that is nothing to worry about.

Mark

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Dennis J. Losco
Film Handler

Posts: 39
From: Phillipsburg, NJ, USA
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 04-28-2004 12:56 PM      Profile for Dennis J. Losco   Author's Homepage   Email Dennis J. Losco   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just in case some you do not know, Superior Quartz Products, Inc. purchased all of the assets from the defunct xenon division of Durotest in 2000. We revamped all of the equipment replacing vacuum pumps etc. Through production new quality check points have been put into place, along with overall improvements to the lamp. Average life is 1200 hours and we have less than a 1% return rate.

Stewart - Regarding the lamps that failed no need to worry about an explosion with this one. When a lamp turns blue and black it means that the lamps has gone to air while hot. There should be no pressure inside of this lamp.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9442
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-28-2004 08:52 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark we never had a hot spot with the DUroTest or superior quartz lamps just the USHIO and another 1570 had two ushios that the electrodes location was incorrect

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Floyd Justin Newton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 559
From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 04-29-2004 06:54 PM      Profile for Floyd Justin Newton   Email Floyd Justin Newton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's been my understanding that 500 hours is the 'life limit' on
a 15KW xenon lamp.

fjn
Local 295 Ret. [Smile]

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Dominique Replogle
Film Handler

Posts: 61
From: Highland Utah
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 04-29-2004 07:00 PM      Profile for Dominique Replogle   Author's Homepage   Email Dominique Replogle   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Floyd, you will be fine quite a bit longer than that. We typically go to about 1500 hrs before changing over and have been fine.

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