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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » What the Hell is with Microsoft Update? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: What the Hell is with Microsoft Update?
Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15887
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2016 12:51 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just loaded a full install of Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on a customers booth computer where the hard drive failed and then activated it just fine. Then I went to let it sit and upgrade................................................. Normally this process takes a couple to three hours to do the 200+ updates. All day yesterday it ran and ran and ran and downloaded a total of seven updates. Then I thought, ok... I'll upgrade it to Windows 10 since all the projector apps run fine under it. Well, the Win 10 upgrade downloaded and it created the install file all in about a half hour but then it went to upgrade the Windows 7 install I just did before it could do the upgrade to 10 and it did exactly the same thing... sat and checked for updates. So I pulled the Win. 10 upgrade back and let it sit overnight and check for Updates. This morning I rebooted the computer and it had installed about a dozen updates. So what gives with Microsoft? And is there any other way available to install all the 200+ updates?

Mark

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Rick Raskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Manassas Virginia
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 04-15-2016 02:15 PM      Profile for Rick Raskin   Email Rick Raskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found that W10 upgrade can hang in the checking for updates mode. Try disabling the Windows Update Service before you do the upgrade. services.msc from the command mode.

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Mike Schulz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: May 2007


 - posted 04-15-2016 02:24 PM      Profile for Mike Schulz   Email Mike Schulz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you have the Windows 10 image, just to a clean install. I learned long ago to never let Microsoft handle OS upgrades and since you're starting from scratch right now anyway, it's much easier and better to just let the Windows 10 installer nuke your hard drive and install it fresh.

There is definitely a way to create a Windows 7 image with all of the system and security updates included but it's a pain in the arse to do. In the Windows XP days, the process was called "Slipstream" and there were even apps made that did it all for you. I haven't heard of an app for Windows 7 so you would have to do it all manually.

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Matt Olson
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Fridley, MN/ USA
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted 04-15-2016 02:29 PM      Profile for Matt Olson   Email Matt Olson       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had issues in the past when a single update fails it stops other updates from installing and also stopped windows from finding new updates. If you look in the view update history you can see if you had any update's fail. Then you can search for the KBxxxxx file on MS web site download that file and update it.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Notre Dame du Lac, Indiana USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 04-15-2016 02:43 PM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I loved doing the Slipstream stuff with XP. You could even customize settings right on the install disc so you didn't have to change things after the install was completed. Not sure if there are still apps like that out there.

I've been a Mac user mostly since 2006, and haven't looked back. Persistent updates was one of many many reasons for switching.

AJG

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2016 05:10 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I actually am not upgrading to Win 10 on this. It just tried it to see if it was any quicker and it was not. I did another fresh install and just let Windows Update do its thing. At this rate it'll take three weeks.

I did a little more research and found a couple recent articles that both say MS is getting slammed with Windows 10 upgrades and their servers are bogged down. All the Windows 7 systems that have to be upgraded before Windows 10 upgradecan be installed is whats causing this to happen. One would think MS would have planned for this...

Upgrading a fresh install of Windows 7 used to be a couple hour affair at most, not at this point in time though. If one can load from an image with all the updates already applied you are better off. I'll be making an image of this drive when it finishes updating some time in the next few weeks!

And so far no updates have failed.

Mark

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Mike Schulz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: May 2007


 - posted 04-15-2016 06:29 PM      Profile for Mike Schulz   Email Mike Schulz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Out of curiosity, what will this booth computer be used for? If it is only going to be used to control the projectors and whatnot and the internet is not a necessity then you can probably get away with not even bothering to update Windows if VNC and everything else is already working on it. The security updates are really only necessary if it will be always connected to the internet.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3172
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 04-15-2016 07:21 PM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
One would think MS would have planned for this...
What made you think that?

What does this have to do with the afterlife anyway?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15887
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-16-2016 02:06 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its mainly a remote computer, so the security updates are important. They also use it to retrieve their KDM's.

So two days later the updating is almost finished. I could have also used Windows updater but the key will only activate so many times in a six month period and I didn't want to lose the ability to just actvate on line. To use updater I would have had to do another fresh install and activate again. Plus I wanted to see how long this is really gonna take.

Plan on two days! I hope MS fixes this problem....

Mark

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-17-2016 03:37 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What the hell is this doing in The Afterlife? Did you even read the forum description?

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Carsten Kurz
Film God

Posts: 3278
From: Cologne, NRW, Germany
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 04-17-2016 07:06 PM      Profile for Carsten Kurz   Email Carsten Kurz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark - there are tools to download and store all Microsoft updates on a USB Stick, then perform upgrades later from that local media without an internet connection. Depending on the offline-update state, all that is left to do then on the target system is to install the very latest updates online.

I always have this stick with me, containing all XP, WIN7, and Office updates. Every now an then, I update it to the most current versions.

http://download.wsusoffline.net/

- Carsten

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Randy Stankey
Film God

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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
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 - posted 04-17-2016 10:07 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doesn't Windows download updates in the background then install the next time the computer is restarted?

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2233
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 04-17-2016 10:54 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It depends on how the Windows Update Service is configured, if it's connected to a Windows domain pushing a certain update policy, a local WSUS server, etc. You can also download and install updates in the foreground.

At least it worked that way until Windows 7. With Windows 10, they put a semi-self-aware monster in there that's now in charge of updates.

Actually, you could even download all the MSI bundles associated with all the updates/KBs and run them by hand if you would. That's the way updates worked on Windows before Microsoft introduced Windows Update and before there were 10 new updates every week.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

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From: Erie, Pennsylvania
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 - posted 04-18-2016 02:04 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm... That stinks.

I have mine set to download updates in the background then send me a notification when updates are ready. I can accept, decline or delay the install until the next time I restart the computer. I can also disable this feature and do my updates manually if I want.

I don't have to configure a server or create any kind of policy or script. I just activate automatic updates and it just works.

I don't care what brand of computer or operating system. ALL computers should do it this way.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

Posts: 2233
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 04-18-2016 02:58 AM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution. In general, I don't like the idea of automatic updates for production machines. You essentially give control over your machine to someone else.

The accumulated experience of many years of "automatic updates" is that many updates, unfortunately, break stuff. Sometimes even intentionally...

For internet exposed systems, automatic updates are probably a good thing for most environments. It's certainly not perfect, it's actually the less of two evils. Too many machines get infected by malware because of lack of security updates. The risk of the sporadic bad update outweighs the risk of your system becoming hijacked, which is VERY real and seemingly happens to millions of people every day.

Then again, you shouldn't go surfing the web or opening up all kinds of ports to your servers and other backend infrastructure. So, you can ask yourself the question why you would even want to install updates if stuff works the way it should?

Besides bug fixes and added and required new functionality, the only reason to keep in line with updates on infrastructure on a secure network is to keep in line with your suppliers and to keep your system compatible with future updates. Then again, there is usually no need here to live on the bleeding edge.

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