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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » 4K at home next year (2016) Dolby HDR also coming (Page 1)

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Author Topic: 4K at home next year (2016) Dolby HDR also coming
Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

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 - posted 10-16-2015 02:02 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From the UK's The Register and Faultline:

No 4King way: Dolby snuggles its high-def TV tech into MStar SoCs

16 October 2015

Will 4K TVs become obsolete as soon as next year?

Dolby Laboratories seems to be one step closer to pushing its version of High Dynamic Range into the TV ecosystem, with a collaboration announced this week with mega smart TV player MStar Semiconductor, which said it would deliver a Dolby Vision 4K Ultra HD SoC (System-on-a-Chipset) to go into TVs next year.

This fits in with our assertions at Faultline that next year all 4K TVs will become obsolete with the release of HDR-ready devices in 2016.

Dolby says that MStar has been working with it for the past two years to optimise Dolby Vision for integration into its MStar video processing engine, and will begin delivery of a SoC within the next year.

Given that MStar claims a 70 per cent market share for the chips that drive smart TVs, Dolby’s presence on the device is a significant boost. However, you could also make the argument that as a chip-maker MStar has to offer this HDR variant, as well as the two other popular ones – from the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers and from Technicolor – in order to satisfy all of its customers.

But the Dolby Vision VS10 universal HDR playback solution supports both dual-layer and single-layer Dolby Vision streams and other HDR profiles so it includes the SMPTE ST 2084 standard. This enables displays to take full advantage of a combination of peak brightness, local contrast, and wider colour gamut.

“As early adopters of Dolby Vision, MStar has collaborated with Dolby for the past two years to optimise the HDR engine with MStar’s expertise in display technologies, which will enable the delivery of Dolby Vision to a broader range of TVs,” said Sean Lin, general manager, TV Business Unit, MStar.

Just a few weeks ago Dolby Laboratories announced that China’s HiSilicon had agreed to offer Dolby Vision 4K UHD in its SoC for set tops in the DVB, IPTV and OTT markets, including on Android set tops, which use the HiSilicon Hi3798C V200 chipsets. This was the first global Ultra HD set top chipset solution to support Dolby Vision HDR.

Back in June, Technicolor submitted its own HDR process for standardisation to the Motion Picture Experts Group and said that testing is underway with chipmakers including Marvell and STMicroelectronics.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

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 - posted 11-01-2015 10:49 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a little late posting this, but here we go. From

Fox Reveals First 4K Blu-ray Titles...

3 September 2015

Twentieth Century Fox has revealed the first batch of titles that will be released on 4K Blu-ray. They are Exodus: Gods and Kings, Kingsman: The Secret Service, Fantastic Four, X-Men: Days of Future Past, Life of Pi, The Maze Runner and Wild.

At IFA in Berlin, Mike Dunn, president of Fox Home Entertainment said: "We are committed to releasing our slate of movies going forward in Ultra HD with high dynamic range, day and date, with the Digital HD and Blu-ray release. We believe it is critical to have rich, compelling content available to consumers as the UHD TV market continues to grow."

Also at IFA Samsung introduced its first 4K Blu-ray player, which is expected to arrive on the market in early 2016.

Hanno Basse, chair of the UHD Alliance and CTO at Fox, who attended the press event for Samsung's new player commented: "We've made a lot of progress. We're getting close to finalizing our technical specifications, as well as our certification and logo programs. Since the announcement of the Alliance earlier this year, we've almost tripled our membership, and we now represent a large segment of the device and content industry from around the world. And we hope to share a lot more details in the coming months on the launch of our licensing program and the availability of new products in the market."

I don't care much about the Samsung 4K player since I intend to upgrade my HTPC to 4K some time soon. But I am bugged a bit by Sony with their muddying of the waters of this impending 4K release wave - Sony is releasing 2K Blu-ray titles labeled as "Mastered in 4K". Some consumers may buy into those Sony titles thinking they're getting 4K performance on a 2K disc. Annoying, at least to me.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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Yeah, I agree Sony's "mastered in 4K" Blu-ray titles that are really just regular 1080p standard Blu-ray discs does stink of another double-dip. However, most of those titles are from new masters, which would offer a visual improvement on Blu-ray. On top of that some of those titles are even boasting new mixes in Dolby Atmos.

Nevertheless, anyone who bought a 4K capable TV set recently might be kicking themselves over it. All current 4K TV sets only support the REC 709 color standard. New TV sets that support REC 2020 color gamma are going to be available soon. It's likely a bunch of those TV sets will support Dolby Vision. The Dolby brand is pretty well known. I'm thinking Dolby Vision might get more attention from the average consumer than the techie sounding REC 2020 thing.

Nevertheless, new UHDTV sets are set to look even more awesome than ever along with being crazy thin. Some of these OLED screens look like they could break if you touched it the wrong way.

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Jonathan Goeldner
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as of November 10, Sony has now jumped into the fray:

"Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (SPHE) today announced the studio's first releases in the next-generation 4K Ultra HD™ Disc format, which will arrive in early 2016.

"By some estimates, consumers will own over 100 million Ultra HD television sets by 2019. Sony Pictures' 4K Ultra HD Discs will deliver consumers the ultimate home theater experience, with stunning picture and sound quality," said SPHE president, Man Jit Singh.

Singh continued, "Ten years ago this month, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment authored the world's first feature film on Blu-ray Disc™, and we continue to bring consumers the most innovative, immersive home entertainment experiences available."

SPHE's first 4K Ultra HD releases will include The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Salt, Hancock, Chappie, Pineapple Express, and The Smurfs 2, followed by a growing roster of titles including new release film and television content.

SPHE's 4K Ultra HD Discs feature four times the resolution of HD and include high dynamic range (HDR), which produces brilliant highlights, vibrant colors and greater contrast on compatible displays. Many titles will also support next-generation immersive audio formats.

Sony Pictures has an extensive library of 4K content, including newer films and television shows, as well as classic catalog films restored from original film elements, including Fury, Captain Phillips, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Men In Black, Ghostbusters, The Fifth Element, Bad Boys, The Da Vinci Code, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Leon: The Professional, Lawrence Of Arabia, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Guns of Navarone, Taxi Driver, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, and many others.

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment (SPHE) is a Sony Pictures Entertainment (SPE) company. Sony Pictures Entertainment (SPE) is a subsidiary of Sony Entertainment Inc., a subsidiary of Tokyo-based Sony Corporation. SPE's global operations encompass motion picture production, acquisition and distribution; television production, acquisition and distribution; television networks; digital content creation and distribution; operation of studio facilities; and development of new entertainment products, services and technologies"

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Paul H. Rayton
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In today's Wall Street Journal, there was an interesting article about the newest TVs coming, the HDR sets. This is a rapidly-developing technology (aren't they all?) but I'll share this now since it expands the discussion here "up to the moment". (I'll provide a link as well, so you might be able to see the accompanying graphics, but WSJ is pretty fussy about refusing access to non-subscribers, so it very likely won't work. You can try it WSJ here )


This Year, Buy a TV That’s Actually Better
High dynamic range, or HDR, is a bigger deal for picture quality than Ultra HD 4K or more gimmicky TV upsells

By Geoffrey A. Fowler Nov. 10, 2015 -- The Wall Street Journal

sub-headline: High dynamic range, or HDR, allows this year’s top TVs to show more colors, lights and darks. WSJ Personal Tech columnist Geoffrey A. Fowler explains why, when it comes to picture quality, HDR is a bigger deal than Ultra HD 4K.

Can you spot the difference between someone on TV and a person actually standing in front of you? Of course, but it’s hard to put your finger on why. A screen wipes out the little details—the glint in an eye, the spring of a curl.

TV’s next leap takes it closer to real life. It’s not 3-D, or more pixels. Instead, new screens can show the highs and lows that color reality: the reflection in an eye that’s 500 times brighter than the pupil next to it, the countless gradations in a head of hair.

Called high dynamic range, or HDR, this lust-worthy feature is available in the fall’s best TVs from Samsung, LG and Sony. It may sound like some geeky perk, but unlike with Ultra HD 4K TV sets, normal humans don’t have to scoot the couch closer to notice HDR. From what I’ve seen, it’s the best argument in years to upgrade your set.

HDR will become standard in the coming years. The price for getting it first is $2,000 and up. Way up.

The term HDR may be familiar from a shooting mode on your smartphone camera. On a TV, HDR screens do a better job of reproducing the astonishingly wide range of colors our eyes take in. High-end cameras, the ones Hollywood already uses, capture much of this information. But to make video compatible with standard TV’s narrow range of tones, a lot of this detail gets thrown out.

What does HDR look like? You’ll know it when you see it. Nothing I can show you here—in video or photos—can quite reproduce it.

It helps to view it side-by-side with a standard video, as I’ve been doing with a few movies in my gadget vault for the past three weeks. A standard video might look brighter overall, but the HDR version is more heightened and detailed.

Spider-Man’s costume becomes a more intense red, even in darker scenes. “The Lego Movie” characters look like they’re actually made of plastic. HDR video can get so bright that an on-screen explosion can actually be, momentarily, uncomfortable.

My aha moment came watching the movie “Life of Pi.” There’s a scene where young Pi is attacked by flying fish. By the end, he looks like he’s covered in beads of water. But when I watched it in HDR, I realized that wasn’t water—those were fish scales, remnants of his battle. The HDR version could show enough of the tones in each scale for me to make it out.

In many of these sets, the extra colors are made possible by awesomely named quantum dots, which emit more colors on an LCD screen. (Kudos to Samsung for figuring out how to do this on its SUHD TV line without the toxic metal cadmium.) LG produces HDR images using a more expensive technology called OLED, which can show even more colors.

These TVs are also much brighter. To geek out for a moment, we need to pick nits—no, they’re not lice, but units of measurement to gauge brightness. Back in the 1990s, when our current video standards were set, the assumption was that a TV could produce, at most, 100 nits. Flowers in the noonday sun are closer to 14,000 nits.

A TV doesn’t need to be that bright. Samsung’s latest SUHD TVs can put out 1,000 nits. That’s enough for a neon sign to look like it’s glowing amid the inky dark pixels of night.

There’s just one problem, and it’s a familiar one: TV makers are much further along than Hollywood in adopting the new technology. There’s no HDR broadcast TV or live sports, at least not yet. (Can you imagine how awesome it would be to watch the Olympics in HDR? Please get on that, NBC.)

Here’s what you can get today: Amazon streams HDR versions of a handful of movies, including “Amazing Spider-Man 2,” and original shows (“Transparent,” “Mozart in the Jungle”) to compatible smart TVs. Netflix plans to offer HDR, too, but it wasn’t live on any sets I tested.

Other sources don’t exactly make it easy for early adopters. Online movie store M-Go sells HDR films, including “Life of Pi.” You can play them on Samsung TVs—if you have a compatible external hard drive. The app is buggy, and it took me three days to download a file before I could watch my movie.

To make matters worse, there are competing HDR formats. (Seriously, again?) Samsung, Sony and LG are all behind HDR 10, which Amazon is using.

But the entertainment wizards at Dolby Laboratories, largely responsible for jump-starting the idea of HDR, have their own system, Dolby Vision, which could lead to better images. So far, in the U.S., Dolby has only signed up Vizio, which has been promoting a TV I saw in prototype, but wasn’t able to test. Netflix and Wal-Mart ’s movie service, Vudu, are early Dolby Vision content partners.

Still, there’s plenty of reason to be hopeful for HDR. Unlike Ultra HD 4K video, HDR doesn’t require creators to use new cameras. Distributors don’t really have to pick a side in the format war—they can offer both Dolby Vision and HDR 10 over the Internet. And HDR doesn’t take much more bandwidth to transmit to your home. 21st Century Fox has already committed to making all new movies available in HDR. And Samsung announced a Blu-ray disc player that supports 4K and HDR.

Samsung’s 65-inch $4,000 JS9500 uses quantum dot nanotechnology to enhance the color on an LCD panel.

Before recommending my favorite HDR sets—all of which are also 4K—I want to warn you about shopping. Many retailers don’t have HDR demos in stores, and since they usually set all their TVs to a garish vivid mode, it would be hard to spot genuine HDR content amid all the shock and awe. HDR isn’t bright all the time—just when it should be.

If money is no object, the year’s best HDR-capable TV, hands down the best TV of 2015, is LG’s 9500 OLED line. Its prices run $3,000 for a 55-inch model, and $5,000 for 65-inch. With max brightness of 400 nits, these OLEDs aren’t as bright as competing LCD models, but because OLED can get as dark as the old plasma sets, both HDR and non-HDR video look more lifelike. They’ve got stunning color, and I can confirm the screen is viewable from every corner of the man cave. I also prefer LG’s snappy WebOS 2 interface.

Vizio’s $6,000 Reference Series set looked great when Dolby showed it to me, but Vizio wasn’t able to deliver me a shipping TV. (They’re now on sale at Best Buy ). I can’t recommend a TV without testing it first.

The HDR TV with the most impressive color came from Sony, but the $3,800 65-inch X930C model I tested came in last in darker scenes. Sony says its 75-inch $8,000 X940C model doesn’t have that problem thanks to a different backlight technology.

If spending more than $3,000 on a TV might put you in divorce court, I can recommend Samsung’s JS8500 ($2,500 for 65 inches) as a good compromise with the best lineup of HDR content.

And what if you just wait? That’s always the rub with TV tech. This year’s models will surely be on sale by Super Bowl 50, even if the game won’t be ready for HDR until Super Bowl 51 or later. And I’m sure next year’s models will show even more colors, with better processors to handle HDR in any format. They’ll also likely get brighter, especially LG’s OLED models.

After years of dubious upgrades—how many times did anyone actually watch “Avatar” in 3-D?—there’s finally a TV technology improvement that’s instantly obvious to the naked eye. With HDR, the pieces are finally in place for TVs to compete on what mattered all along: the most realistic picture.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

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 - posted 11-14-2015 12:19 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Backwards compatibility, or is the TV manufacturers gonna keep in business for a while making 4K TV's?

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Jonathan Goeldner
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 - posted 12-29-2015 09:48 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
new Warner Home Video news:

"The first available titles will be Mad Max: Fury Road, San Andreas, The Lego Movie and Pan. Following quickly will be theatrical new release titles available day and date with their initial home entertainment release as well as a selection of catalog titles throughout the year including Man of Steel and Pacific Rim. By the end of 2016, Warner Bros. will have over 35 titles available on Ultra HD Blu-ray.To complement the disc releases, Warner Bros. will also expand the titles available on 4K Ultra HD with HDR via digital retailers. Dolby Atmoswill also be included on select titles for a truly immersive home theater experience."

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

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 - posted 12-29-2015 10:39 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll eventually get a new TV (which unfortunately will ONLY have HDMI inputs, nothing else... I really REALLY hate that). The problem is getting rid of the old TV. Never fun. Probably will only rebuy a few movies.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

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The technology press and press in general is trying to hype "HDR" over 4K, but without offering an accurate portrayal of just what kind of TV sets are currently available or will be in the near future. They also don't say much about playback requirements either.

None of the TV sets currently being sold fully support advanced color spaces like REC 2020, XYZ or DCI-P3. It's not clear when exactly such TV sets will become available (and just how much they will cost). I think that's a big problem with all this HDR hype. And then there's the issue with HDR standards, there isn't just one. Instead there are multiple competing standards, with Dolby Vision having the most name brand recogition.

There are new UHDTV TV sets out now that claim to support HDR, but they're not offering the whole enchilada. It's more like enhanced REC 709 function.

Even though the press seems totally disinterested in regular UHDTV and "4K" the whole UHD thing is very quickly becoming a standard feature in new TV sets, not just high end models. Earlier this evening I was picking up a couple grocery items at "Wally World." I saw some 55" UHDTV sets on an end cap display. The TVs were priced at $598. I wouldn't expect to get a great quality big screen TV for $600, but the fact "4K" is getting down into that price point is impressive.

I kind of wonder if there isn't some sort of agenda going on against regular 2160p TV sets. The emerging UltraHD Blu-ray format will be the best playback platform to show off 4K in the home. But some people and certain big technology companies really hate anything involving physical media. So maybe if they poo poo UHD and tell consumers they don't need it and just wait for HDR it might derail that new Blu-ray format. Never mind the fact consumers are still going to need something like an UltraHD Blu-ray player in order to play movies with HDR imagery. Or do these tech press people and certain tech companies expect consumers to stream HDR in 720p?

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Jonathan Goeldner
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 - posted 12-29-2015 11:18 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm really hoping Disney makes a big announcement of it's plans in releasing UHD discs at next month's CES conference

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Jonathan Goeldner
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while Fox didn't detail whether they'd side with Dolby Atmos or DTS-X - they have announced that the object based mixes will be exclusive to the UHD editions and not their bluray releases:

['Google Translated']:

"While already other studios such as Universal, Parmount, Sony and Warner movies with Auro-3D, Dolby Atmos and DTS: offer X-Sound on Blu-ray Disc, will Fox the new 3D sound formats as a lure for the coming Ultra HD Blu-ray use.

The home theater division of the Hollywood studios 20th Century Fox wants, according to continue to offer films with "3D sound", but only on Ultra HD Blu-ray discs (UHD-BD) and not for the titles released on Blu-ray Disc become. This was stated by President Worldwide Mike Dunn told heise online at the edge of a previous event at CES.

As this format seems "Dolby Atmos" to be sure already set; next "at least a second" surround sound format will support loudly Dunn. Whether further Auro-3D, DTS now: X or both are, he would not betray the other hand also on multiple demand.

20th Century Fox announced at the event on the new "Ultra HD Premium" that they publish around 100 4K titles on VoD and Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc by the end -. With increased contrast and an extended color space the initial target of the titles " The Martians ", a concrete release date, there is, according to Dunn not First matching players would be available;.. currently the spring was in 2016 in an interview to The Ultra HD Blu-ray discs from Fox initially always bundled with the respective Blu-ray version appear."

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Jonathan Goeldner
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if the trend is correct from SHOUT Factory their IMAX titles releases will include the 3D 2K bluray as a bonus disc - 'Journey to Space' cover art has confirmed this --- hooray!

Foxconnect and Best Buy have the Fox UHD (streeting at the beginning of March) up for preorder. MSRP $39.99 / discounted of course

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Scott Jentsch
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That Google Translation makes my head hurt. I end up having to re-read it in order to sort through the broken English, and afterward, I'm not confident that I've gotten the actual intent of the Fox rep that was interviewed.

In my mind, there are three issues at play with all this:
  • HDCP 2.2 Compatibility with legacy equipment
    The current belief is that unless you have HDCP 2.2 equipment in every part of your chain, you will not get any content from a UHD disc. It will not be down-rezzed to 1080p for legacy equipment unless every component in the chain supports HDCP 2.2
  • Atmos/DTS:X on the included Blu-ray in the UHD Combo Pack in addition to the UHD disc
    The Fox announcement seems to say that while the UHD disc may have Atmos/DTS:X, the included Blu-ray will not.
  • Atmos/DTS:X on the standalone Blu-ray titles of movies that are released on UHD in Atmos/DTS:X
    One could assume from the Fox announcement that even if a movie is released on UHD with Atmos/DTS:X, the standalone Blu-ray titles will not.
I think by blocking people from buying a UHD player and hooking it up to the equipment they already own, the market for UHD will be stunted.
Another reason that people would begin buying the UHD Combo Packs would be to enjoy the Atmos/DTS:X soundtrack on the UHD disc or the bundled Blu-ray.

If they can't do these things, they would be required to buy a lot of expensive equipment before they can start building their library of titles.

Case in point: The Martian gets released in March. The current pricing on Amazon makes the UHD Combo Pack $7 more than the Blu-ray Combo Pack. I would happily pay that $7 in order to get the UHD disc for future use, especially if I could play its Atmos soundtrack on my existing equipment.

If the Atmos soundtrack isn't going to be on the bundled Blu-ray, then at least I could think about purchasing a UHD player and enjoying the content on the UHD disc (Atmos soundtrack, any extras they have on that disc that may not make it to the Blu-ray disc) even if it needed to be down-rezzed to 1080p because I don't have a 4K display yet.

As it stands now, it appears that they may be going to an all-or-nothing approach, which will make it a very steep hill for the new format to climb.

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Jesse Skeen
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The UHD format doesn't support 3D, yet a large percentage of the initial titles are 3D movies. No thanks.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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I'm not convinced that the world really wants another disc based storage medium. People are definitely moving away from storing things on bits of plastic.

I also don't think people will be pitching or being upset at their recent purchases of even circa 2015 4K TVs. MOST people just are not all that into the high-end hoopla. They buy what they think looks (or sounds) good and is within their budget.

Certainly, the latest and greatest UHD and HDR stuff is going to be FAR pricier than the stuff in 2017 and beyond. As Bobby notes, even 4K has become relatively cheap. Even "better" or mid-line 4K sets are below $1000 now. If I had to do over again, I'd probably go for a the next level up (I bought Samsung last year for a house we are renting rather than move a CRT based TV so I was more price conscious). The next tier up has notably better contrast but I saw the dreaded "3D" feature on it and, at first, thought that was why it was more money. In later reading, I see it had the next tier better contrast too. Oh well. It isn't horrible at all and overall, we are quite pleased. It will just be one of the TVs in our new house next year, it is just a 55"

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