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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » HDTV in PAL-land

   
Author Topic: HDTV in PAL-land
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-2007 10:16 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is it true from what I read that there are 720p-50, 1080i-50 and 1080p-50 formats for PAL lands? WHY? I can understand backwards compatibility with PAL, but there is no reason to have these formats for HDTV. Everything should be the same worldwide as far as HDTV formats go. 50Hz power is no longer an excuse.

Is this true?

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4007
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-24-2007 10:57 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh it be true.

This article attempts to explain it. Basically it seems to come down to the building blocks of NTSC and PAL technologies still being in effect.

quote:
As a result, there are, and will be, for the foreseeable future, differences in Digital TV and HDTV standards in use throughout the World, which reinforces the barrier to true Worldwide video standards for both the professional and the consumer.
There are links to more possibly-useful background info at the bottom of that page.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-24-2007 11:59 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fucking Europe.

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Damien Taylor
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted 07-25-2007 03:52 AM      Profile for Damien Taylor   Email Damien Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And its colonies.

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Patrick de Groot
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sprang-Capelle, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-25-2007 09:38 AM      Profile for Patrick de Groot   Email Patrick de Groot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We were and are using the superiour PAL standard. It has higher resolution and better colours (I'm sorry colors).

Hey Joe, you American may never use the Fuck word in public without bleeps. We do. We can even show one or more breasts without people getting ill and claim millions.

However it's stupid to carry PAL and NTSC history over to HDTV:
* 23.977p (allow easy conversion to NTSC) WHAT A STUPID FRAMERATE!
* 24p (cinematic film)
* 25p (PAL, SECAM DTV progressive material)
* 30p (NTSC DTV progressive material)
* 50p (PAL, SECAM DTV progressive material)
* 60p (NTSC DTV progressive material)
* 50i (PAL & SECAM)
* 60i (NTSC, PAL-M)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-25-2007 04:48 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let's see. The public can read this web site. Fuck. No bleep! I will agree that suing is VERY American and practically all we do.

Both NTSC and PAL suck ass. Both are horrible and completely unacceptable. No argument can be made in favor of either, ever. No need to carry either crap over to HDTV. Hail to the Queen, that dumb bitch-whore! Wait, that wasn't bleeped, either!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15887
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-2007 07:02 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Patrick de Groot
We were and are using the superiour PAL standard. It has higher resolution and better colours (I'm sorry colors).

NTSC = Never The Same Colours

Really... The rest of the world is stupid not to latch onto the same HDTV specs. It looks pretty dam good now when done right... kinda like film done right. I doubt that the overseas system its going to look at all better done just slightly different.

Mark

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-25-2007 07:27 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's how HDTV should be:

Resolution

1080p only. None of this wimpy 720p or 1080i nonsense. Same goes for the BS formats like 768p since they can't seem to make LCD TVs at 720p. Also, no built-in upscaling allowed.

Frame Rate

24p
30p
60p
100p

All TVs would be multisync monitors to match the framerate, of course. No lame-ass drop frames! The lowest refresh rate allowed would be 72Hz.

Make it happen.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15887
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-2007 08:34 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,

The reason that 1080i and 720P exist is because thats just about the maximum data rate that can be sent over the air, remember that most stations have other sub channels... some up to 5... each sub channel eats up some of the bandwidth of the 20 Mbs data stream that the transmitters are fed. KBYU TV for instance has to shut off at least one of its sub channels to broadcast HDTV stuff. Future improvements in DTV modulators should allow 1080P in the future. Have you watched sporting events on both 720P and 1080i... 720P blows it away for the most part and has alot less artifacts.

Mark

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 07-25-2007 09:05 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Subchannels are retarded. All they do is take away bandwidth that rightfully belongs to HDTV. I know 720p and 1080i exist due to the bandwidth constraints of the mid-90's or so. Unfortunately they didn't realize that as time progresses, technology evolves. Therefore they limited the technology to what they were able to think of back then. We should erase 720p and 1080i from existence and use a 30mbps MPEG4 codec for 1080p only. No subchannels. They are not needed. Nobody will miss them. Also cable TV should not be allowed to compress the signal even further like they currently do with HDTV stuff. MPEG 2 is sooooooo 90's.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 15887
From: Bountiful, Utah
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-25-2007 10:26 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I completely agree... In fact it really makes me wonder what satellite HDTV is like.

Mark

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6632
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-03-2007 10:06 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Patrick de Groot
We can even show one or more breasts without people getting ill and claim millions.
If I could claim millions from seeing breasts in Europe, all I'd have to do is take a stroll down Dollebegijnensteeg and I'd soon be richer than Bill Gates!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12856
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-03-2007 06:28 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Leo Enticknap
Dollebegijnensteeg
Ultra retarded words like this is why I created this thread.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6632
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 08-06-2007 12:30 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But where's your sense of adventure? Surely your life will never be complete without visiting The Netherlands and having breakfast at this place:

 -

...and far as I know, they don't serve duck (or offer psychiatric counseling)!

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