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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » HDMI vs Component Connection (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: HDMI vs Component Connection
Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-06-2007 07:20 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I am now using a standard slightly older Sony DVD player with a Panasonic PT-AX100U LCD Projector. I am projecting on a 3 x 7 ft slightly curved screen image viewed at 9 ft. For the most part, I only play anamorphic wide screen. The quality looks very good with this setup. Some or about 20% of the new DVD's actually look like film.

This system is now hooked up by using component cable. What happens is, the DVD player projects for a few seconds with the image squeezed. After a few seconds, the projector senses the squeezed image and corrects it to the 3 x 7 foot image.

I tried a newer Panasonic DVD player with an upconvert with a HDMI connection. The projector just played the image in 16:9 with the sides cropped. I could not get the projector to play 2.35 widescreen with that $100 best buy Panasonic DVD upconvert player so I took it back.

Now I am thinking of purchasing a true HD-DVD or Blue-Ray player. Must I use the HDMI connection or can I just use component connection with the HD DVD Player?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-07-2007 01:24 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem is most likely your projector and not the DVD player, unless you had the DVD player's options set incorrectly. I wouldn't bother with HDMI on standard definition stuff.

Also, be sure you don't spend too much on an HDMI cable. You can HDMI cables for under $10 that will look every bit as good as the $100 cables. 1s and 0s are still 1s and 0s regardless if it has an evaporated gold plated connector with intertwined evaporated quad-shielded fibers and all of that Monster Cable® nonsense.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 07:37 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
I realize I don't need a HDMI cable for standard DVD. The question is, must I used a HDMI cable for HD DVD or can I use the existing component cable?

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10702
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 11:28 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You might be able to get by using a component cable...so long as the HD-DVD disc doesn't have the HDCP flag activated to prevent HD-quality video from streaming over the component video outputs.

Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the capability of restricting the quality of analog video output. The players can down-sample the HD quality video down to 480p (or possibly cut off output completely) if the security measures in the disc demand it.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 11:53 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
In a round about way, that's what I wanted to know. That is, can I get HD DVD quality on a HD DVD player using component cables to the projector? The answer seems to be NO! I must use the HDMI cable and try to get both machines to work together to display 2.35 anamorphic.

It also looks like "any" cheap HDMI cable will work since 0's and 1's are 0's and 1's. So the cable WORKS or it does not.

Thanks

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Mike Olpin
Chop Chop!

Posts: 1852
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-07-2007 01:00 PM      Profile for Mike Olpin   Email Mike Olpin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Bobby Henderson
so long as the HD-DVD disc doesn't have the HDCP flag activated to prevent HD-quality video from streaming over the component video outputs.

They wouldn't dream of doing that at this point. Can you imagine the PR nightmare when everyone who bought the HD DVD add ons for XBOX cant use them anymore?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12207
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-07-2007 01:37 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The HDMI signal is more difficult to move than Joe leads on...if the cheap cable works, it works but don't be surprised if it doesn't. Beyond about 15' HDMI isn't really specified. The shorter the cable, the less it matters of its quality as to its liklihood of working (from a signal standpoint...it could still fail due to crappy connectors or build quality).

Steve

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 01:51 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
The projector and DVD player are only one foot apart, so cable length is not an issue. The issue will be how much better will HD DVD play in 2.35 projected anamorphic vs standard DVD's

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 7991
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-07-2007 01:53 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mike Olpin
They wouldn't dream of doing that at this point. Can you imagine the PR nightmare when everyone who bought the HD DVD add ons for XBOX cant use them anymore?


Exactly. Not to mention pretty much everyone who bought HDTV sets before HDMI connections were standardized. As far as I know, no commercial disks have used the flag to date.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10702
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 02:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Movie studios, so far, haven't used the HDCP flag to limit the kind of video that can stream from component video outputs. That current policy is by no means any insurance against the studios changing their minds in the future. The electronic infrastructure is there for them to do it if they feel so inclined.

I think one real test of that policy will come when these HD-disc formats are no longer high end niche items and gaining mainstream adoption by the general public.

There is also another factor with HDMI which I have always regarded with a certain level of suspicion. The technology can be used to bring back a pay per every view system for movie discs.

Many of Hollywood's movie studios really wanted the pay per every view business model of DiVX to work. They drooled over the idea of getting someone to buy a disc and keep paying extra every time they wanted to watch it. The thinking was that they could gain huge increases on revenue from home video by forcing this system on consumers.

DiVX didn't work for a number of reasons. Most were bare bones discs with pan and scan video making the product itself pretty crappy. The real killer to DiVX was that enough studios were backing "Open DVD" and loading the discs with original aspect ratio video transfers and loads of extras.

Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have the HDCP system built into their formats. Product activation schemes via Internet connection can eventually be applied to these discs. Basically everything is getting put into place to potentially bring back the pay per every view format.

In the end, the general public will need to be aware of that potential and vote with their dollars (by spending them elsewhere) whenever a movie studio tries testing that sort of thing.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 07-07-2007 03:37 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
Well, if this flag doesn't really exist on any normal HD DVD made to date, then the answer looks like a yes. That is, I can use component cable for HD DVD and actually get HD. I just have to realize that any new HD DVD disc I might purchase even a month from now might not work due to the added flag. In that event, I just purchase a HDMI cable.

[ 07-07-2007, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-07-2007 05:02 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, it doesn't even end there. You see, HDMI is seriously messed up. They come out with a new version of it every other month, it seems. If the version in the player doesn't match the version in the projector/TV, then things could be messed up/limited. Or if the two hardware devices don't "shake hands" (their term, not mine) properly then you could get no video at all ever. HDMI was designed by retarded amateurs with no foresight. I wish smart people would have been involved.

Also, Steve, who would put their HD-DVD player in a completely different room or house than their projector/TV, thus requiring such a long cable? The only scenarios I can think of are industrial presentations, boring corporate stuff and the such where they are forced to use long cables. If you enjoy boring, you might need the longer cable.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12207
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-07-2007 10:29 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hung my projector from the ceiling and the DVD player is greater than 15-feet of cable away once everything is routed neatly.

HDMI is stupid in that it wants to fall out too! I understand consumers just can't deal with "locking" type connectors like the XLR, BNC and such but this is just plain silly. Seriously, HDSDI would have been a good standard to adopt...a single 75-Ohm coax...nothing fancy...just good performance...and I'd forced the consumer to deal with BNC connectors too...they seemed to have dealt with "F" connectors tha screw on (yes, I know there are friction versions of them too).

Steve

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-08-2007 12:17 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Consumers cannot handle locking connections. I think the "logic" is that they are supposed to unplug when you trip over them (which you are expected to do since consumer IQ does not go above 75) instead of pulling the entire piece of equipment down to the ground which will cause its doom due to the shoddy manufacturing of the unit.

I've already got 50 feet of 75-ohm coax laying around doing nothing... the locking kind. I'm just waiting for someone to invent a use for it.

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 07-08-2007 11:06 AM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Larry Myers
must I used a HDMI cable for HD DVD or can I use the existing component cable?
No, you don't have to use the HDMI connection to get a HD signal. The Toshiba HD-DVD decks output the HD signal through the component too at this time.

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