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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo on DVD… (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo on DVD…
Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 07-13-2005 02:44 PM      Profile for Andy Summers         Edit/Delete Post 
There is a whole lot of 70mm films that have been released over the years on DVD, well the sound is my practical interest, is the six-track Dolby Stereo film format, some have mono surrounds and some have the split-stereo surrounds intact, giving those the chance to hear the best sound around and for some unlucky ones the opportunity to hear and feel these road show classics.

I have missed out on quite a few myself, though I have only heard the 35mm Dolby Stereo A type optical prints, so hear is a list of the ones I have got and wished I have heard it in the cinema.

Hear in no order at all, all titles below are DVD

2010 scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Top Gun scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Willow scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Die Hard scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Die Hard 2 scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Alien scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Aliens w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Alien 3 scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
The Thing scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Backdraft scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Starman scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
The Black Hole scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Predator scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Cocoon w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
The Fly w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
The Abyss scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Close Encounters of the Third Kind scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Always w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Apocalypse Now scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Hook scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Tron scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Glory w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Amadeus scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Robocop w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Dances with Wolves scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Terminator 2 scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Cliffhanger scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Lifeforce scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
E.T. w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
The Last of the Mohicans scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Superman the move scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Big Trouble in little China scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Out of Africa w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Ghostbusters scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Gremlins w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
The Rocketeer scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Born on the Fourth of July scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Firefox scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Star Wars scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
The Empire Strikes Back scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Return of the Jedi scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds
The Right Stuff w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Arachnophobia w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Lethal weapon 2 scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Lethal Weapon 3 scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
The Hunt for Red October scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Back to the future w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Back to the Future part 2 w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Back to the Future part 3 w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Wargames w/s Dolby six-track mono surrounds
Memphis Belle w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Innerspace w/s Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Outland scope Dolby six-track split-stereo surrounds
Casualties of War scope Dolby six-track mono surrounds

Woo, that’s not even near a third of the 600 plus films on DVD & Laserdisc

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10538
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-13-2005 03:10 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's a few titles in your list stating stereo surrounds when the actual 70mm print had mono surrounds. For instance, I don't think the 70mm prints of "Back to the Future" or "Outland" had Format 43 split surround mixes. "Outland" was hyped for being in "Dolby Megasound" -but still, I don't think it was Format 43. Same goes for "E.T." and a few others. Michael Coate might jump in here on this one.

These days, its a pretty rare thing for an older film to simply reuse its original soundtrack on any new DVD release. Even a lot of newer films have separate mixes for theatrical and DVD release. It is rare for the packaging to point out that feature (the "platinum editions" of "Seven" and "Blade II" feature such verbiage). There are movies on DVD with DTS-ES 6.1 discrete mixes that didn't feature Dolby-EX at all in theaters.

So much remastering is done that many discrepancies exist between an original theatrical mix versus what is featured on DVD. That certainly explains why some older films originally with 70mm Format 42 prints have real 5.1 audio tracks on DVD.

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Andy Summers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005


 - posted 07-13-2005 03:27 PM      Profile for Andy Summers         Edit/Delete Post 
Cheers Bobby

The split-stereo surrounds came about with Warner Bros “Superman the Movie” 1978 and though I have only worked with 35mm Dolby stereo optical A and SR Types at the few cinemas that I have worked for UCI and Warner Village cinemas, though what is the difference between Megasound on Outland and Superman II I believe, it’s not like in your face type, has the opening credits on Outland are “Just Bloody Loud” JBL.

The discrete channels are in fact mono as I have done an audio mixing course in music & technology, but there is very little information about Megasound on the Dolby web site on this type of process.

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 07-23-2013 11:12 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 2932 days since the last post.


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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1287
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 07-23-2013 11:12 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought E.T. was a baby boom 70mm mix. Under this assumption, weren't all Dolby 70mm films that didn't have split stereo surrounds were 'baby boom' releases - correct? (I didn't think Dolby implemented the five front channel spread that were the norm for 70mm releases prior to 'Star Wars' in 1977)

Megasound was used for 'Outland', 'Altered States', 'Superman II' and 'Wolfen'

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Sam D. Chavez
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1977
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-24-2013 12:23 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't remember Megasound being anything unique or a true format, just more real subs and big amps instead of using the left over Altec A4's in channels 2 and 4. I did a few installs of this for "Altered States" and it was very effective as real subs in an existing 70mm house were still relatively new.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 11749
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-24-2013 12:54 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Format 41 applied Dolby NR to a traditional Todd-AO mix...reissues of classic titles often used this format. I think Annie and Rhinestone used this format in post 1977 times.

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Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Notre Dame du Lac, Indiana USA
Registered: Mar 2003


 - posted 07-24-2013 11:42 AM      Profile for Aaron Garman   Email Aaron Garman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd be curious to know how much some of these mixes (or re-mixes) are compared to the 70mm mixes. I was too young to ever get to hear them sadly. Raiders comes to mind. Anyone able to say if the Blu-ray (or even the DVD) is accurate? How about E.T.'s 7.1 re-mix on Blu? Sure, they all sound good but are they "accurate"?

AJG

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10538
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-24-2013 11:55 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are so many variables from one movie to the next that it would be difficult to say if a DVD or Blu-ray has an "authentic" mix comparable to the original theatrical mix.

I figure it's safe to assume at least some alterations have taken place on older catalog titles in transferring them to DVD and Blu-ray.

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Sam D. Chavez
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1977
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 07-24-2013 11:58 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They are remixed no doubt. In any case there is no way to determine the accuracy unless you could play the 70mm track in a cinema and then compare the sound from the Blu Ray right after.

Of course there are very few 70mm screens left to use for theis experiment and you have all the differences between a large room and a small media room/man cave.

Then you have analog magnetic tracks that can sound stunning, vs. a compressed digital track.

Overall, you had to be there to truly appreciate how good it could be.

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 01-30-2015 11:02 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 555 days since the last post.


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Jonathan Goeldner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1287
From: Washington, District of Columbia
Registered: Jun 2008


 - posted 01-30-2015 11:02 PM      Profile for Jonathan Goeldner   Email Jonathan Goeldner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
anyone know if 'Wolfen' had split surrounds, or was it mono? Both 'Outland' and 'Altered States' on bluray sound impressive and I'm curious why Warner is dragging its feet in terms of releasing that on bluray.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10538
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-30-2015 11:36 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A lot of those old catalog titles get remixed into 5.1 using whatever assets/stems that are available and whatever methods fit into the budget. I can't even remember the last time I saw Wolfen. I get it confused with The Howling, which IIRC was a somewhat better werewolf movie, but with no 70mm prints.

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Marcel Birgelen
Film God

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From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012


 - posted 01-31-2015 06:16 PM      Profile for Marcel Birgelen   Email Marcel Birgelen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think all of those 5.1 remixes are THAT bad to be honest. I recently watched the Redux version of Apocalypse Now on Blu-Ray which had a 5.1 remix. They split the back surround, you will notice it in the very first scene already, as the helicopter sound effect makes extensive use of the surround channels. Your opinion might vary, but I think they did a good job on this remix.

The movie was originally also released as a 70mm blowup with 6-track stereo. The 35mm Redux re-release, which I've played myself actually, did have a Dolby Digital track, but I don't really remember if this is the same mix that made it to the Blu-Ray.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10538
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-31-2015 06:30 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apocalypse Now was one of the first movies to have its original mix created in 5.1 surround. It was 70mm Dolby Format 43.

Throughout the 1980's very few 70mm blow-up prints were made with Format 43 mixes. The vast majority were the standard "baby boom" Format 42. I'm pretty sure Wolfen was one of those. Of the ones that were actually Format 43 just about all of them were released in the latter part of the 1980's. More were released in the 1990's, but 35mm digital sound formats were arriving on the scene and spelling the end of 70mm blow-up prints.

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