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Author Topic: Midnight Cowboy Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-02-2005 08:24 PM                     For years I had heard all kinds of hype about what a great movie this is. So, I finally watched it on TCM the other day. Can someone PLLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSEEEEEE tell me what is sooooooo great about this film?????? Ya, I understood the plot, but in my opinion it is a sick, demented waste of time! This is one film to watch if ya wanna be permanently turned off to sex! Perfect fodder for the Abstancance Crusade!!!!!! All I can say about this film is......  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 03-02-2005 08:47 PM                        "Midnight Cowboy" was a very innovative movie because it showed things which were happening in society but were at that time largely ignored and tabooed. It also seems to have hit the nerve of its time with its uncompromisingly pessimist mood. For a long time, movies hadn't shown much resembling whatever the actual social realities of their times were. That only started during the late 60s, largely influenced by European, especially French cinema. "MC" is one of the movies which brought that style to American movie-making. The cinéma verité style of this movie was also a noticeable influence on such classics as "The Godfather" or "Taxi Driver".  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-02-2005 09:20 PM                     ...course, we all know that MC was originally rated "X" when it won the best picture award in 1970. (the Duke finally got his award for being Rooster Cogburn in "True Grit" - beating out Dustin Hoffmann as Rico Rizzo in MC. Dustin Hoffmann's portrayal as Rico actually should have won the actor's award, but the Duke well deserved his for his character). What a shocker to the public: an "X" rated movie getting best picture oscar! I remember seeing MC for the first time at the drive-in I was working at in that spring of 1970-when the awards were announced. I didn't make heads or tails of this movie as well. But in 1971 when UA re-released the movie and lowered the rating to an "R" - being that this movie really didn't have scenes that would draw such an "X" rating, thus no scenes were cut on the re-relese, and I had more time to watch to actually had more time in understanding this movie, it was more apparent that this was a good character study between two cultures: one character from a small town in Texas who had a big dream of being successful without having anything to go for him, and a "street rat" character of NYC, who knew how to steal, cheat and about anything to stay ahead of the game and that game was to survive. More or less, this became a new "buddy movie" - movie resembling Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, Lemmon and Matthau, and others. Yes, the movie was a bit tough to watch. Situations that was never presented before, thus making a story and plot very hard to follow. But after a few times of watching this, it all became very apparent on what was going on. Then after this I realized that MC did deserve the best picture award. And of course, with Harry Nilsson singing "Everybody's Talking" sticking in our minds all summer long, "Raindrops" from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" stole the award for best song. M*A*S*H got best director... Good flick as always - Monte  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-05-2005 01:26 PM                     Monte, I clearly understand how this movie would have generated controversy during the time of its origonal release. I also clearly "get" the entire story line. But I still think that the movie is I also believe that it is an insult to the great commedian "buddy" teams of yesteryear to even consider putting this film on some sort of "par" with them! The only thing good about M-C is the title song, which is of course now an oldies classic. Cheers K  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-05-2005 06:45 PM                     I think Midnight Cowboy is definitely one of those movies that works best if you saw it for the first time back in the 1960's or at least understand what was going on in society at that time. If one is only going to measure it in how it compares to contemporary films and what we're used to seeing today then that person is certain to be disappointed. I think MC is a pretty darned good movie, although it is not one of my favorites.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-06-2005 01:19 PM                     Growing up in the 1970's,my memories are that most of the highly publicized hippi/drug crap was in California and New York. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio in 1968 and lived there until 1975. We lived in a middle class working neighborhood (Euclid and Greene) area, and I attended Euclid Park Elementary School. My Dad retired from the US Postal Service, and my Mom was a Homemaker. No one in our neighborhood was involved in the "hippie-coutner coulture"...all were busy taking care of their families and responsibilities. What still gives me a chuckle is that my Dad was a real "lead-foot" driver. Occasionally we would encounter some hippies in a busted down VW bus on the freeway or street that would be causing a major traffic jam. My Pop would roll down his window and yell every concievable profanity at them...basically telling them to get that pos off the road, get a haircut, shower, cloths and a job! Even at that age, I thought it was ridiculus and would, at my Mom's objections, roll down my backseat window and reiterate my Dad's "Colorful" remarks! We moved to Tucson in 1975, after my Dad's retirement. The Hippie "Counter-Culture" did not have much of a presence there, either. Cheers K.  |  IP: Logged Mike Heenan Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1896 From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 03-09-2005 11:30 PM                     I think the Mafia in tucson probably took care of the hippie problem!  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 03-10-2005 04:37 AM                        "Midnight Cowboy" has absolutely nothing to do with "Hippie counter-culture" or something like that. It is about shattered dreams and hopelessness, about people who come under the wheels of reality, not about people who run away from it in hand-painted VW vans. I think the title and title character are very symbolic. He is not just a cowboy because he is from Texas and that is his style, he thinks he is the the romantic cowboy character who heads out into the endless open country with its endless adventure and opportunities. In reality, he is headed for nothing but darkness ("Midnight") and failure. For the rest, see above. Another element that I hadn't clearly seen before is how this is the negative mirror image of the buddy movie, as Monte pointed out. Will - I think you don't understand at all that this movie isn't a celebration of urban subculture/drug/hippie counter-culture/whatever-culture at all. It is, if anything, the contrary. I have to say though I am a little bit concerned about the amount of bottled up social hatred and intolerance which you sometimes celebrate with so much relish. I don't think you understood anything about the social movements which were going on around you when you grew up in the 70s. Your story tells us only that you were simply conditioned to be intolerant and that is alright to judge people by their outer appearance.  |  IP: Logged Will Kutler Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1506 From: Tucson, AZ, USA Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-10-2005 06:19 AM                     No Michael, My opinions are not about social intolorance! On the contrary, the neighborhoods where I grew up were family oriented, and the people were concerned with tending to their responsibilities ; raising their families, maintaining employment so as to provide a nice home for their families. Both my parents could have taught these loosers something about social responsibility ! I alsothink that Mr.Heenan is partially correct in his assessment, also! The Bonnano family never had much influence in Tucson!  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 03-10-2005 06:30 PM                        quote: Will Kutler My opinions are not about social intolorance! On the contrary, the neighborhoods where I grew up were family oriented, and the people were concerned with tending to their responsibilities quote: Both my parents could have taught these loosers something about social responsibility ! That's nice, but it doesn't have anything to do at all with what I said. What I said is that it is very unfortunate that they also taught you to judge people by their outer appearance and that it is OK to yell at people (and that it is more fun to do so in groups because you feel stronger) because their appearance does not please you and fit your expectations. Because the reality is that you didn't know anything about these people. Nothing at all. Except what you thought they were like based on your prejudices about what "proper" people look like. The truth is that a lot of people grew long hair and beards etc in 70s, including a lot of people who were very well educated and businesswise very successful. Maybe they were good-for-nothings, or maybe they were first generation computer wizards on a 70s-style alternative vacation? It is a very common phenomenon for lower middle classes and below to hide their social anxieties and fears behind hatred for what they think are people who contradict the world order they feel safe in. I know you are interested in history, the 3rd Reich among other epochs. A lot of exactly that dynamic was at work there and was used to control the poeople. Think about it. It seems to me that your extremely emotional reaction to the movie "Midnight Cowboy" was triggered by those same fears. I am not saying BTW, that you have to like that movie. Not at all. I think it is a very interesting movie, even though I don't really like it very much myself. But I find it equally interesting that you apparently don't understand at all what is actually going on in that movie, but that you have this very strong allergic reaction to it.  |  IP: Logged Wayne Keyser Master Film Handler Posts: 272 From: Arlington, Virginia, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 03-20-2005 11:14 PM                     MC came out in a time when everything most people depend upon for stability in a society was called into question, or simply changed without anything to replace it. Every social norm people had become used to seemed to have reached the end of its viability, and every value was either mocked or abandoned by the most vocal cultural spokesmen. People felt cut adrift. And guess what MC was about? Two people who had (by bad luck or dumb free will) come loose from values and social norms. They were adrift, and the story showed the result of that rootlessness: they "circled the drain" pretty quickly. There were small consolations - they had some comfort in clinging to each other - but those weren't enough to save them. I can't think of a better illustration that, in times of such sweeping change, seemingly without anything to replace what has been discarded, disaster is the result.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 03-20-2005 11:27 PM                     Hey, if we're gonna lightly bash the hippie/flowerchild era, how many of us remember the 1970 WB 185 minute documentry/rockumentry "Woodstock" ? Now, there was some good tunes in that movie! -Monte  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 03-21-2005 01:44 AM                        Probably should start another thread for Woodstock but boy I do remember it. Maybe remembered unjustly for the hideous look of handheld 16mm blown to 70mm in order to have that glorious 6-track mag sound! It was quite the spectacle when it played at the Las Vegas Cinerama Dome. Also memorable because it was the project where Marty Scorsese met Thelma Schoonmaker--both of them worked on it as film editors. As for Midnight Cowboy, would you believe I've never seen it? I must've led a sheltered life.  |  IP: Logged Pravin Ratnam Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 844 From: Atlanta, GA,USA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-21-2005 04:17 AM                     Well, Will, I don't get your disgust with the movie. Maybe you didn't like it and nothing wrong with that. But you seem to have some really strong feelings. I lived in Pittsburgh as a kid(same age as you), even went to India and lived there for a while, came back to Pittsburgh, got to watch this movie in college(Carnegie Mellon had a pretty decent laserdisc collection at that time) and I still got the point and vibe of the movie. It does not glorify the hippie culture. It has nothing to do with glorifying unstable families. I pretty much agree with one of Michael's replies to your post. I remember cringing at what Jon Voight's character had to go through to make money (that gay encounter in the theater.I was more socially conservative in college and felt a little queasy at that scene at that time.), and yet stuff like that did not mess up my appreciation of the movie. People fall through the cracks regardless of how they were raised. People are just wired differently. That's life. I would like my movies to deal with different segments of society. I credit this movie as one of those that made me a tad bit more compassionate for the losers of society even if they bring it upon themselves. [ 03-25-2005, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Pravin Ratnam ]  |  IP: Logged Wayne Keyser Master Film Handler Posts: 272 From: Arlington, Virginia, USA Registered: May 2004 posted 03-25-2005 03:15 AM                     I was gonna say I wasn't bashing "hippie" culture - I happen to have a photo of myself in [*cringe*] love beads, face paint and Nehru collar from 1969. But the losers in MC weren't hippies - they were just what happens when people abandon the social contract. I, too, prefer not to spend an evening and my good money watching unsavory jerks wallow in misery. It's especially cringe-inducing to remember my girlfriend of a few years back, who would have let everybody around her know "how beautiful it was to see two beautiful souls fight against this crappy world and go down in flames like the evil society dooms them to." Thank God I gave her up and married a normal woman.  |  IP: Logged

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