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Author Topic: My "VERTIGO" DVD went bad Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-14-2004 11:01 PM                        I suddenly had the urge to watch Alfred Hitchcok's "VERTIGO" yesterday after I had mentioned the film in my Film Handlers forum thread on a question regarding the theatrical showing of "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS". After inserting the disc in my player, it was rejected as unplayable. I thought this was very odd because it played just fine when I bought the disc at the time it was released. After I watched the movie on that disc the first time, I never tried to play it until yesterday. When I examined the disc after it was rejected, it looked just fine and as good as new. After it was rejected by my principle player, I tired playing it on my back up machine and my computer and the disc would still not play on the two other payers. The "VERTGO" DVD was released by Universal Home Video and a friend told me today he had the same thing happen to him with his DVD copy of "SPARTACUS" which was also issued by Universal. Do you suppose many of my other Universal DVDs might have gone bad too? I was very fortunate when one of my DVD vendors told me this afternoon he would be very happy to replace my defective "VERTIGO" DVD with a new copy. One of the problems I had collecting laserdiscs was a defect called "Laser Rot". Do you suppose DVDs rot too? -Claude  |  IP: Logged Gilbert Travin Expert Film Handler Posts: 101 From: Villeurbanne / France Registered: Jan 2004 posted 03-15-2004 02:15 AM                        Hi Claude On the french forum http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/ I have readed a few posts talking about the "rot" phenomena. You can search on this forum and use an on-line translator if you do not read french... I beleave that guys have washed their dvd (with water+soap) and then they were all right for a few days, because the phenomena comes back  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-15-2004 08:27 AM                        Good grief. Here we go again! Just another reason why we should all get that DVD-X-COPY program and burns copies of all our DVD,and CD purchases. And wouldn't you know, the MPAA has taken 321Systems, the author of this DVD copy program, to court and has put a cease-and-desist order on them to stop the company from selling any more of their copy software because the MPAA claims it infringes on their member's copyright materal. Can you believe the chutzpah of these freakin people? 321Systems counters that making a single copy for the protection of a DVD that someone has already purchased is protected by the fair-use clause, just as making a single copy of a video tape, CD or a floppy disk as a means of backing up and protecting the original (your property) is perfectly legal and has been allowed by the fair use provision or years. And of course, the MPAA will loose, just as Universal/Disney lost their ludicrous lawsuit against Sony, trying to stop Sony and the electronics manufacturers from manufacturing VCRs, claiming the VCR was an instrument designed to help people infringe on their copyrighted material. What a joke. Now this crap about preventing the owner of a DVD from making a single protection copy to protect his investment. Can you imagine, I have already purchased four versions of most of the titles in my collection and the low-life, bloodsucking leaching bottom scum feeders don't want me to make a protection copy of a DVD that I purchased and which in all likelihood, we now find out, will rot in a couple of years! May a multitude of venonous fire ants cover their nipped and tucked, liposucked, botox-pumped bodies and sting the bastards in places they can't scratch.  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2004 12:32 AM                        DVD rot has been identified for a while; it's especially worse on dual-layered discs. The Sydney Morning Herald broke this biggest in Feb. of 2003 with an article about a failure analysis engineer who decided to start getting refunds. As expected, it wasn't without a fight, then only within a "reasonable" time period. It may be that VHS tapes will remain more watchable over time than some DVD's.  |  IP: Logged Ron Keillor Expert Film Handler Posts: 166 From: Vancouver, B.C. Canada Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-16-2004 03:31 AM                     This sounds similar to the problem that PDO in England had with their pressings of Hyperion, ASV, Albany and some other labels. ( http://personal.riverusers.com/~manderso/uhjdisc/bronzing.htm ) They gracefully replaced a full dozen CD'S that had become unplayable. I'd be tempted to order my DVD'S from England if the situation becomes more widespread and the North American suppliers will not back up their quality.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-17-2004 09:19 AM                     Possibly a down side to living in a very humid local.... or possibly something Bob harris added to Hitch's original plot... that all Vertigo DVD's will fail and the film will not be seen by anyone for another two generations..... Mark  |  IP: Logged Rob Butler Film Handler Posts: 91 From: Westford, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-17-2004 07:45 PM                     Is it possible that you might have accidentally bought a "DIVX" DVD? The DIVX format was created as an alternative to video rental stores, it let's you play the disk once, then if you want to play it again, you have to pay for a special code to unlock the disk. These disks only work in players that are designed to play DIVX disks, which would explain why your backup player and computer wouldn't run it.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-17-2004 08:36 PM                        Rob, Were you serious when you asked that question? I hope not because I have been a serious videophile ever since Sony first introduced the Beta home video format and have also utilized every video device including VHS, High 8 Pre recorded tapes, laserdicss and finally DVDs. I knew what Circuit City's DIVX format was and would not touch it even if it was offered to me for free! To answer your question, NO it was not a DIVX but an official DVD I bought at Tower. If you read my post closely, you would have noticed when I had said that Tower Video will replace it with new copy. If it was a DVIX, disc, why would they do that? -Claude  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-19-2004 09:45 PM                     Welcome, Rob! Claude: I got 3 discs a few months ago that played fine the first 2-3 times they played, but started skipping and freezing up with no scratches of any kind on them! Got them at Circuit City. Store whined about my returning the discs nearly 6 months after the purchase date, but, we worked it out. **** This is my first post on my new (to me) Computer! Seems to be working pretty good!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-19-2004 10:44 PM                        Is "laser rot" only applicable to video disks/DVDs? I once heard that CDs were affected too but I have 20+ year old disks that still play fine. In fact I can't think of any that have ever stopped playing for me.  |  IP: Logged Claude S. Ayakawa Film God Posts: 2738 From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-20-2004 12:27 AM                        Mike, Has it been twenty years years since CDs were first introduced? I believe I was one of the first person in Hawaii to buy a CD player and in a short period of time, I built up a large collection. Like you, I have never had a problem with any of the earlier discs I bought as well as many I bought later. My "VERTIGO" DVD was the 2nd one to go bad. The first one was a Warner Brothers disc of "THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT". The picture pixilated after an hour and became unplayable on all of my machines. My local video retailer was kind enough to replace it with a brand new copy. So far, I have been lucky with my DVDs with only two going bad. I wonder if I will be able to say the same thing five years from now? Bruce, You were very lucky to get Circuit City to replace three of your DVDs that went bad. That store is not very well known for good customer relation where I am. The only label I know that has a disc replacement system is Disney. They do have an on line address where you can register your discs and if any of the discs should ever become unplayable due to a manufacturing defect, they will replace it with a new copy. -Claude  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-20-2004 12:32 AM                        Compact discs were introduced in the spring of 1983. Damn I feel old.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-20-2004 06:28 AM                     Daryl, you are old. Claude: I think that the only reason CC replaced 3 disks was that I replaced all of them with the same titles, and that I had bought 12 movies that day. 2 of the 3 disks I replaced were FOX titles. The other one was Paramount. I generally don't do much trading with CC. [ 03-20-2004, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce McGee ]  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 03-20-2004 11:15 AM                        "Laser rot" can affect any disc with an Aluminum layer. CDs, LDs, and DVDs all encapsulate their Aluminum layers to prevent oxidation. If the Aluminum ever becomes exposed to air, it oxidizes and any data recorded there becomes unplayable. There have been stories of laser rot from the earliest days of CDs. I too have CDs dating back to 1983 and those discs continue to play just fine. But it is possible for a CD to go bad, usually due to a seal failure at the edges of the disc. Some discs have molded edges, others have cut edges. The cut edge type seemed to be more prone to edge failure. If either type fails and lets air in, that disc will eventually become unplayable. LDs had particular suseptibility to Aluminum layer oxidation for a couple of reasons. One, the plastic used for LDs was hygroscopic--it absorbed moisture from the surrounding air. Another was that most LDs were double-sided, essentially two single-sided halves glued together to form a single disc. Finally, LDs were relatively large, which could lead to large warping forces. So LDs were prone to warping and partial glue failures, leading eventually to edge failures and laser rot. Fortunately, CDs and DVDs use a plastic that is not hygroscopic so at least warping due to moisture isn't a problem. These discs' small size helps minimize warping as well. But many DVDs are double-sided, and are prone to some of the same failure mechanisms that affected double-sided LDs. In the end, anything that allows air to come in contact with the Aluminum layer of any of these discs leads to eventual laser rot and unplayability.  |  IP: Logged Rob Butler Film Handler Posts: 91 From: Westford, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-20-2004 07:00 PM                     Claude, I didn't mean to underestimate your intelligence, I actually have a friend that bought a few DIVX disks thinking they were regular DVDs. She'd never heard of DIVX until after she asked me if I know why they wouldn't play anymore. So YES, I was being serious when I asked that question.  |  IP: Logged

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