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» Film-Tech Forum   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Equalizing an Hi-Fi setup (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Equalizing an Hi-Fi setup
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-20-2002 12:17 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi everyone.

I need your opinions on how to set up an hi-fi setup. I've bought a calibrated mic for measurement, I downloaded Spectra Lab, I tested it with internal pink noise and I had a very flat response on the screen (this tell me that program/PC/sound card are working properly).
So I connected the mic to my sound card input and start to do measurement.
After few tests, many questions come to my head.

1. Should I have the same response curve than in the cinema? So, flat wheight and -3dB per octave after 2k?
2. Subwoofer level. I believed that subwoofer should stays at the same level of front channels. So I recorded a band limited pink noise, I played through subwoofer and set subwoofer to have the same level on the RTA.

In this way, however, bass frequency seems a little poor for me.

Anyone has any suggestions?

Bye
Antonio

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 07-20-2002 12:54 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are you talking about a home set up like in your bed room or living room, are you talking about a computer set up or are you talking about a home theater dedicated setup.

1, if you are talking home set up like bed room or livving room it can be done but, getting the propper curve and having the sound sound right is very dificult. You have a lot of furniture a bed couch and hard walls to deal with. A lot of bouncing around and absorbtion in the sound. What I have done in the past when possable is hook up designated 10 band graphic equalizers to each channel. Now to do that you need a designated pre amp output and amp imput for each channel. THen you can equally adjust each channel to achieve a given to ear sound response. Basically trial and error till you get it the way you want.

2, If it is a computer set up don't bother in my opinion. Computer sound cards and programs like to change the way the sound is represented and use 3D technology to enhance the sound.

3, Home theater set up where you use proper sound fold and do not over populate the room with furniture yes I would set it up using the calibrated mic. But still even though you equalize setting it up this way it will still boil down to what your ears like to hear.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-20-2002 02:04 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Darryl,

The final project is a dedicated home theater setup. It will be a preamp with equalizers for all output. In the meantime I was trying to equalize my home theater in my bedroom in stereo mode.
I realize that it is hard to found a good compromise between place and taste but I believe that a mic can help you founding a "standara" setup from wich you can start playing (like bass/high, sub level ecc.).

About my previous question, it was my mistake! I realize a DTS CD with pink noise sound and I forgot that DTS LFE was set to +6. This is why in pro logic I had poor bass frequencies!

Bye
Antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9460
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2002 05:02 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I recomned the ISO curve but for review room and dubbing theatres since you are in the near field the roll off is far less
As for the sub set it for the same level as the speakers are reproducing in the same band and that will provide a bass boost

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-21-2002 11:52 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This may be a non-issue, but isn't the mic supposed to be calibrated to the measuring instrument?

For instance, I "lost" the calibrated mic that came with the RTA (actually, that mic was STOLEN) and to get a new mic, I had to send the RTA back so that the new mic could be calibrated to it (or vice-versa).

My point being that I didn't know it was possible to just "buy a calibrated mic."

Am I mistaken?

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 05:36 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,

Perhaps "calibrated" is not the right term. I mean that I've bought a very linear mic abut, actually, I don't have any real measurement of SPL.

Gordon,
Thanks for the info. About the sub, I reset the levels and now I have good bass, both in multichannel (+10dB) and in stereo (+0dB).

A question: the hard bass boost (like disco music) is realized in recording (boosting the low bass) or in reproduction (boosting the sub)?

Bye
Antonio

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 01:01 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And, Gordon,

How much "far less" the roll off?

Bye
Antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9460
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2002 02:59 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a standard for small mixing rooms and I can't find it at the moment but somehow flat to4K is ringing a bell
If you want disco bass get a DBX subharmonic synthesiser as it was installed in most of the disco crazed installs
They are available on ebay

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 04:04 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

Thanks for the info on ISO curve. I'll have a search on Internet, perhaps I'll found something.

About ultra bass: I'm not going to record it or buy something. I wonder this. In cinema soundtracks subwoofer channel is set 10dB higher to have more headroom for very loud effects (up to 113db).
In Dolby Stereo subbass channel is just there to have more bass extension on the lowest frequencies but at the same leve, right?

So, if I set my Hi-Fi subwoofer for +0dB versus main speakers, I will have just the freq. responce flat up to, say, 30Hz.

But what about disco music? What about hi-fi music when the lowest frequencies are intended to be loud as at the theater?
Is it possibile to have them very loud with a sound system set to +0dB (so playing with the channel's recording) or should the system have to be set like a theater so with, say, +10dB on the sub channel?

Just a curiosity. I hope that I was clear

Bye
Antonio

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Justin McLeod
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-22-2002 09:49 PM      Profile for Justin McLeod   Email Justin McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Antonio,I think you should experiment with cabels and speaker placement before you go EQING in a room as small as a bedroom.Their are quite a few fantastic speaker cabels and interconnects out on the market that can really improve the sound that you allready have. Here in America i use Kimber cable for my speakers,sound processing equipment, and players.I also use a kimber cable type "cable terminator" for my speaker cable. I use Tributaries for video and digital audio connections. Go seperates based if you can afford it, you may find out that you dont need to equalize your speakers. I buy my gear at high end dealerships. They do get expensive on some cable but for the most part they are reasonably priced and you get good quality cable.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9460
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-22-2002 10:28 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Specialty speaker and interconnect cables are a load of crap....
There is no proof that they improve anything so if you want to waste your money go ahead gold plated (ie low contact resistance corrionsion resistance connectors) are available OEM. Also heavy cable is more than available from any electrical wholesaler

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17687
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2002 10:32 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Justin, I must wholeheartedly agree with Gordon here. You've been scammed. Stop blowing your money on fancy brand name cables. You will only hear an audible difference if you have convinced yourself that you will.

By the way, if you still think you hear an audible improvement, do consider buying the Film-Tech line of speaker cables. Price ranges from $20-100/foot depending on the gauge and is made from genuine zip cord.


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Justin McLeod
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-23-2002 05:13 PM      Profile for Justin McLeod   Email Justin McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Brad and gordon, cabels do actually make a difference. I dont want you to to think less of me because of this reply, I have the greatest respect and admiration for the both of you. I have been working with home theaters now for about 10 years. The only thing i can really say that i agree with the both of you on "Cable wise" is that the copper cabel itself doesnt make a difference but more of how well the cabel is ligned with shielding material to eliminate interference of anykind. I consider the interconnect the most important part of the system ( and the first most missunderstood aspect of a soundsystem ) so that cabel has to be the best cabel in the whole rig. Now the second most important cabel is the speaker cable the second most miss understood aspect of a soundsystem. You can get by with less shielding on these cabels than you can with the interconnect. Know i know what you guys are thinking ( what a load of shit this guy is feeding us ) I know how long you guys have been in the bizz and i know how intelligent you guys are in the field of sound. I really think you guys are miss-understanding me in this area so please listen to what i haft to say.

On a entry home set up( be it 2 channel or 6 channel), hi end cabel will not give you a noticeable difference. The problem is with the system and the components you use. The "cable" just preserves the sound your sending through your components and to your speakers. If your components are cheap your going to get cheap sound no matter what kind of cable your using. My advice to Antonio was to experiment with different cable, since he is in the theater bizz and does work on sound systems.I assume he has a better than average home soundsystem. Its way cheaper than buying expensive equalizers for each channel and and making his home setup more complicated than it should be.

The only real benefit you get from hi-end cabel on a entry level system is good connection between your components and speakers.

Now on a mid level and high-end system you have to use the good or the best stuff in cable. Because the components are made better or alot better, the good or best cabel will preserve your sound from beginning to end. The cable i use is for mid to hi-end home systems. I currently run a mid level home system at home so i use a cable that best preserves my sound from components to speakers.I want to be able to hear the most from from my players,processors and speakers and i would think you do to.

Give me your reasons why you think high end cable is a gimmick.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9460
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-23-2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A few years ago I had a customer with a very old theatre it was about a 150' throw so the stage lines were about 275 feet
He decided to spend money on some very high end shield speaker cabel rather than replacing the old starscope processor
After he gave the Monster Cable rep the check I measured with the RTA across the AMp out put terminals and across the speaker terminals 500' away (feed and return) and discovered that ther was less that 1/2 db difference across the complete frequency band. ( not overall level just response difference)
A good grade of twisted 12AWG stranded or the HPS4000 method of 12/3 Romex with a cross pairing produced less loss and better response than the expensive monster cable did

As foil interonnects all pre made cables use either a stranded or a braided shield
proffesionally that suck use a 100% foil shield and if you want the best a carbon wrap (Beldon 9452) ad use totally balanced interconnects

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Justin McLeod
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-23-2002 10:45 PM      Profile for Justin McLeod   Email Justin McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Gordon, The hi-end home theater dealerships i go to wont deal with monster cable. They are just not well made cable manufacturer and dont believe the monster cable reps. The only places i selling monster cable are best buy, circuit city, and other stores of the like. I suggest you visit a Kimber cable dealer near you. Their cable technology will intrest you. Good cable is all about the way its shielded and how pure the elements are within the copper. The terminations for alot of the kimber products i see maximise surface contact for getting the maximum signal for its type of terminator. The best connectors ( all the pros use it ) are infact the XLR blanced connectors. All the best gear i have ever seen use the XLR. The gear i have at home does not sport a XLR input or output. Visit http://www.kimber.com and read up on the cable technology.Visit your nearest dealer and see if you can get some cable to experiment with. All the high end home theater dealers i see that use kimber cable use it for speaker cable and the ones that really go out on a system will use kimber for every thing.

If you find that kimber does not pass the tests then i will consider not using it.

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