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Author Topic: R2 DVD film transfer done wrong
Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-21-2002 04:05 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Studio Ghibli anime fans are watching the beginnings of a tempest brewing in Japan with the DVD release of that country's all-time boxoffice champ, the animated feature Spirited Away. I've included a set of posted screen shots from the AnimeonDVD forum. Observe the difference in color balance between the previously released (on DVD) trailer for the film and the DVD of the film itself.

Buena Vista Japan handles distribution of Studio Ghibli's films in Japan and they claim that this color balance was intentional. Various reasons are being cited, including anti-piracy concerns, the need to make the DVD look good on plasma and LCD displays, and the claim that this "look" was approved by Hayao Miyazaki, the film's director.

Huh??? None of the stated reasons for this look make much sense to me. Instead, white balance that far off looks like a major film transfer screwup IMO. It could very well be that Miyazaki approved this look, given his past statements about not caring what his films look like on video. But I've never heard of an anti-piracy technology or strategy that would compromise the look of the legitimate release this much. The same goes for concerns over anticipated display types--that's what D6500 standards are for.

At 5,500,000 units this is one of the biggest DVD and video releases in Japanese history, which might turn into the biggest recall in Japanese history unless BV Japan can convince notoriously picky Japanese consumers that this look was intentional. It will be interesting to see what the US release will look like since BV Japan is supplying the master, rather than using a US mastering house. US release for Spirited Away is scheduled for Sept. 20th in theatres, and sometime later this fall for R1 DVD and video.

Ogenki de,

Paul
SMPTE Hollywood Section
Mercenary video/16/35/70mm/IMAX projectionist
"Otaku wa tsurai yo" <-- Yeah I know, bad pun. Sue me.
It's tough being a fan!



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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-22-2002 10:31 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SMPTE Recommended Practice RP166 clearly specifies the viewing conditions for evaluating video images. Was anyone looking at the final product?

The low contrast orange-cast image makes me suspect they transferred a master positive on a telecine that was set up to transfer prints.

Kodak supplies tools for telecine setup:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/tools/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-26-2002 07:10 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It turns out that this video transfer was done straight from the digital files to video--no print or negative was involved. Studio Ghibli and BV Japan claim this look is necessary to make the film look "good" (i.e. like it did in the theatre) when viewing this DVD on high-end LCD and plasma displays. CRT viewers (who are the minority now in Japan according to BV Japan) will just have to deal with it. Furthermore they will not talk about this issue anymore and reiterate that there will be no remaster no matter how much demand there is for one.

Sounds like BV Japan is digging its heels in. And people think I have an attitude! (I do, I'm just not in a position to impose it ) Regarding their explanations, again I say "huh?"


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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 08-20-2002 01:31 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like the transfer guys made a conscious decision to use 9300K as their standard instead of 6500K. No explanation as to why other than the nonsense quoted above. The following is part of a posting from the "Sen Bitch" thread on the R2 DVD forum at AnimeOnDVD (reworded a bit by me). It is a translated excerpt from the July 20, 2002 issue of HiVi, a Japanese audiophile monthly, which discusses the process Ghibli, BV Japan, and Sony PCL used to create the DVD master:
quote:

Sen's original digital master had a screen resolution of 2010x1068.
It needed a 200GB tape streamer--eight tapes for storage.
First step was to trim it to HDTV size (1920x1080). This process took three weeks.
The 1080/24p HD master was recorded from the trimmed data.
Next came color correction.
The original master's color was evaluated by Director of Photography Okui using a Barco reference monitor (color temperature not stated).
The same monitor was used to evaluate the HD master.
The HD master was timed under Okui's supervision.
Due to the large number of colors used in the animation, the HD timing took five days.
Next they downconverted the HD tape to 480i60 to produce the D1 master with anamorphic squeeze and 9300K white. This master was used to produce the video release.
At the MPEG encoding stage for the DVD (done by Sony PCL), inverse telecine was done--the DVD is 24p.
Sony PCL sent the original discrete 6.1 audio data to the US for encoding.
The DTS-ES 6.1 encoding was done by DTS.

As a side, I'm not sure about the last line regarding the 6.1 audio. The DVD does not have a Dolby Digital 6.1 track on it--only the theatre print version has this. The DVD has two stereo Dolby Digital tracks (Japanese and French) and one DTS-ES 6.1 (Japanese).

I still don't understand why they would pick 9300K for the D1 video master, especially after the DP had approved the HD timing. Weird.



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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 08-20-2002 02:30 PM      Profile for Claude S. Ayakawa   Author's Homepage   Email Claude S. Ayakawa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul,

Does the disc have English subtitles? If it has, there should be no problem because the disc does have a 6.1 DTS-ES track of the original soundtrack that is preferred by almost everyone in region one who might want to buy an imported copy. I do however feel that if the disc is eventually released in region one, it will feature Dolby 6.1 tracks with or without the DTS tracks. I believe "PRINCESS MONONOKE" had both types of tracks

-Claude


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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 08-20-2002 03:24 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Claude,

Yeah, this disc has English, Japanese, and French subtitles on it. I guess my next upgrade for home DVD playback will be to add DTS capability! As always I'm behind the times...

AFAIK this film marked Ghibli's first use of DTS. Mononoke didn't have DTS on either the print or the R1/R2 NTSC DVDs.

I suspect (and hope) this disc will be re-issued sometime down the road, maybe around the time that the R1 DVD comes out. Now that the big-name English dub is finished, I'll bet there will be another "collectors edition" released with these tracks, just like there was for Mononoke. BV Japan could quietly fix the color issue at the same time, but I kinda doubt they'd do that. The buyers of the first disc would probably make sashimi out of the BV Japan staff if they did!

Paul

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-20-2002 04:12 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IMHO, most home video displays are often set too high in color temperature. For comparison, "Daylight" illumination is often defined as D5500, very close to the 5400 Kelvin color temperature aim for motion pictures currently specified in standard SMPTE 196M.

D5500 Daylight seems a logical choice, since human color vision was created/evolved in natural daylight. AFAIK, the push for higher color temperature specifications for video displays is often driven by a desire for greater luminous efficiency (more lumens).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-20-2002 11:37 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
can confirm Mononoke only had a DD track, 5.1

Josh

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-05-2002 06:29 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
News about a lawsuit in Japan regarding the poor color in the DVD transfer, asking for 10,000 Yen ($81) per customer who purchased the DVD:

http://www.screendaily.com/story.asp?storyid=10473

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-08-2002 08:21 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BBC News Online coverage...

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 09-12-2004 01:58 AM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 643 days since the last post.


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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 09-12-2004 01:58 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That lawsuit was finally settled:

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040911/kyodo/d851dgqo0.html

quote:
Lawsuit over DVD version of 'Spirited Away' settled

A lawsuit fans of the award-winning animated film "Spirited Away" filed against the Japanese distributor of its DVD version has been settled at the Kyoto District Court, sources familiar with the case said Saturday.

The distributor, Walt Disney Co. (Japan), has accepted the conditions that it express regret over the DVD colors causing "misunderstanding and confusion" to purchasers and, if it adjusts data on DVD versions of films it sells in the future, it will clearly state it made changes.

The three plaintiffs, including a Kyoto-based lawyer, agreed to drop their demands that the firm replace their DVDs and give each of them 10,000 yen in compensation for disappointing them with colors they said are reddish and dark compared to the theater version, the sources said.

The Kyoto court proposed the settlement conditions Aug. 20.

Neither side has released comments, citing an agreement between.

The film -- "Sen to Chihiro no Kamikakushi" in Japanese -- was directed by Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki and won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature Film in 2003.


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