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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
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Topic: 2001 A.S.O. - DTS discs compatible between 35 and 70mm?
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David Kornfeld
Film Handler
Posts: 24
From: Cambridge, MA/USA, USA
Registered: Apr 2017
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posted 06-20-2018 04:38 PM
quote: Jean-Pierre Gutzeit
There don't exist any "Cinerama" versions of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. Only the normal Todd-AO standard of the 60s.
Wow! I cant tell you how thrilled I am to be enlightened! You sound so sure, so positive, so definitive: it would never enter my mind to doubt you in the tiniest way, because there couldnt possibly exist any evidence that might contradict you! Oh, wait....
Thats the leader of an original 1968 print.
Heres a piece of well-meant, though unasked-for advice, Herr Gutzeit: tread lightly. Film technical history is a bottomless pit: I dont know it all, all my friends who are super-techs would be the first to admit they dont know it all, & you dont know it all. And even if you know a great deal, there will always be someone who knows more. Always. Thats a given. So, unless you are absolutely lock-tight certain that theres nothing out there that would prove you wrong, qualify your statements. It's safer, it prevents the spread of misinformation, & you dont feel like a dummkopf when someone more knowledgeable corrects you, & that will inevitably happen. It's a big world out there.
Now, I heard from two New York former Cinerama projectionists, working a former Cinerama booth, that there were slight differences in the 2001 mix from the Cinerama version to the general release version, & I heard the same thing from one former Boston Cinerama projectionist, & one other projectionist who heard from a different Cinerama projectionist. I had no reason to doubt their veracity, but because I'm careful & I dont know for certain, I tempered my response by saying "I believe," meaning, it may exist, it may not. I'm not sure. Are you? Are you really, really sure?
Also take into consideration the fact that there are now six different 70mm mixes for 2001 in existence -- not even counting the (at least) two 35 versions, & the VHS/laserdisc/DVD/BluRay versions -- and it doesnt seem too far-fetched to believe that there may possibly have existed a seventh version made exclusively for Cinerama theatres. Some pretty impressive showmanship was going on in those days.
But, as I said, I dont know for certain. So I tread lightly. That way, no one will think ill of me when I do err, & I wont lose anyone's respect by coming across as an arrogant know-it-all while being repeatedly proven incorrect.
And we wouldnt want that to happen, would we, mein Herr?
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Robert Harris
Film Handler
Posts: 95
From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-25-2018 05:05 AM
I’m unaware of a specific Cinerama “cut.” The OCN was re-cut to the version of the film that we now know, very early on, with many deletions, plus additions. That occurred early in April, around the 8th to 11th.
I was told, that aside from all of the various mixes based upon the original, that the film was 4-track, with the exception of the last reel, which was standard 6-track. I presume that original prints were produced from a modified, 6-track print master, but earlier films, such as El Aurens, had been recorded directly from the 4-track.
I’ve personally never seen any optically modified prints, specifically produced for highly curved screens, as had been created for early Todd-AO, although there are stranger things in heaven & earth.
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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 08-21-2018 10:11 AM
quote: David Kornfeld
I believe there was a separate, slightly different mix for the Cinerama theatres. I saw a few prints with a label on them marking them so.
quote: Jean-Pierre Gutzeit
There don't exist any "Cinerama" versions of 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. Only the normal Todd-AO standard of the 60s.
quote: David Kornfeld
Heres a piece of well-meant, though unasked-for advice, Herr Gutzeit....
Don't feel bad, Jean-Pierre, you're not the first person Mr. Kornfeld has lashed out at or condescendingly lectured over a tech detail. Kornfeld once served up a thirty(!) paragraph missive directed at me because of a disagreement over an aspect ratio detail. (Infuriatingly, had Kornfeld simply acknowledged the SMPTE projection spec he would've grasped my point.)
Anyway.... Why must the alleged differences in some prints of "2001" be related to the audio? Maybe it is, but... why can't it be pictorial-related? Why can't the "Cinerama" notation on the leader be in reference to the format billing that was tailored for the end credits of each print (and promotional material) based upon the venue to which the print was destined ("Cinerama," "D-150," "Vistarama," unbranded "70mm," no format credit on 35mm prints, etc)?
Or, could it be nothing more than someone's confusion/mistaken recollection about the cuts Kubrick famously made to the film, mistakenly thinking they were made as the film was transitioning out of roadshow and into general release? (The cuts were, in fact, made only a few days after the premiere.)
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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-22-2018 01:43 AM
How many reels did 2001: a Space Odyssey have? If it had 10 reels (which I suspect it had), and this is reel number 10, then, as Michael Coate suggested, it may refer only to the Cinerama credit. It would have been more telling if any of the other leaders showed Cinerama or not. When I saw a (relatively) recent print of 2001 back in 1991 at the AMC Century 14 (a Sunday morning show only), the entire print had a few scratches, but the color was deeply rich and practically grain free, unlike the prints that followed for the 199902000 re-issue...EXCEPT for the final reel 9only about a couple of minutes of actual image followed by the credits). THAT reel was badly faded to red, and it was the first time I saw the film with an "in 70mm" logo where the Cinerama logo had gone before when I saw it at the Dome in 1977. he quality was quite jarring, and I wonder why it was, unless it was not to be shown with the Cinerama logo. All subsequent 70mm showings of 2001 that I saw at the Cinerama credit.
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Marcel Birgelen
Film God
Posts: 3357
From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 08-22-2018 02:43 AM
quote: David Kornfeld
Wow! I cant tell you how thrilled I am to be enlightened! You sound so sure, so positive, so definitive: it would never enter my mind to doubt you in the tiniest way, because there couldnt possibly exist any evidence that might contradict you! Oh, wait....
Why not just go into the discussion without all those very personal insults? It also seems to be very important to stress his most likely German heritage. Accusations like "arrogance" feel very "projective" this way...
quote: Paul Linfesty
How many reels did 2001: a Space Odyssey have? If it had 10 reels (which I suspect it had), and this is reel number 10, then, as Michael Coate suggested, it may refer only to the Cinerama credit.
There is very little evidence for a different Cinerama edit and there are indeed 10 reels. This is the last one. Chances are that it's just the credits that are different.
But given the amount of personal involvement of Stanley Kubrick and that the movie got an essential different "final cut" just a few days after it's initial release, I'd say never say never...
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