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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Kinoton 16? Take a closer look

Author Topic: Kinoton 16? Take a closer look
Bruce McNaughton
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Wandin VIC Australia
Registered: Sep 2004

 - posted 11-17-2017 05:10 PM      Profile for Bruce McNaughton   Author's Homepage   Email Bruce McNaughton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was recently commissioned by an art gallery in Australia to run a series of special screenings in a cinema that had been completely "digitised." The size of the auditorium put it well outside the capabilities of any of my 16mm portable projectors.

I had on hand the remains of a Kinoton FP30. I also had a couple of spare 16mm Pageants.

So this hybrid is the result. I placed two heat filters and an extra fan in the light path because of the concentration of light and heat on to the small 16mm aperture. For the screenings I used a 1600W Xenon.

I threw out the Pageant sound amplifier and installed a nice clean pre-amp and ran it through the cinema's system.

Torque motors top and bottom.

The last photograph here is the machine in mid screening in the bio box.

Very successful.




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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5199
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

 - posted 11-18-2017 08:37 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Damn that's beautiful work, Bruce! Congrats!

Right at this moment I happen to be toying with the idea of using two existing Pageants for two booths that occasionally require 16mm projection and am looking into whether it would make sense to install Marc 300 arc bulbs in them, getting a suitable power supply and possibly adding more substantial airflow, although the Pageants seem to have plenty of air circulation around the bulb.

Anyone familiar with the physical shape of the Marc 300 -- I don't have one in house, but my recollection is that they are similar in size to the ELC bulb that the Kodak used when they replaced the tube bulb. There is even enough room there should the Marc 300 need more space. I am assuming the image would be significantly brighter with the arc bulb, yes?

This is for a Film Department that still has students learning with film, shooting and edit in 16mm BEFORE the go to digital so they require decent 16mm projection in their screening rooms. They also had a large 16mm film library which they junked before I came to the project -- I certainly would have counseled against doing that.

I'll try to find non-working projectors that use the Marc 300 for pennies on EBAY and cannibalize them for the power supply...might be easier than trying to build them. Sure wish there were a super bright LED source that wouldn't be as much of a heat issue. But then again, if I am wishing, how about a white laser source that could be used to light that small frame?!

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7111
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

 - posted 11-18-2017 09:56 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure that LED would now be possible, though some McGyvering would be needed until someone develops an off-the-shelf package or conversion kit. Even an auto headlight LED bulb with a suitable reflector and lamphouse modifications could probably match the light output of a halogen-lit 16mm classroom portable now.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8001
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

 - posted 11-18-2017 01:15 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is an official MARC-300 version of the Pageant. It uses the smaller 300/16A version of the lamp, if I remember correctly. It also runs at 24fps only. The main limiting factor of the Pageant is that they use small-barrel lenses, which can be difficult to find.

I would advise against MARC-300 anything, though, since the lamps are NLA and also have an odd color spectrum. They are not full-spectrum like modern metal halide lamps, but are actually rather blue (and get more so as they age).

Realistically, in 2017, the Kinoton FP38E is the Cadillac of 16mm cinema projectors. The Hortson and Eiki are OK. I don't like the Prevost. I have not used the full-size Elmo.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9464
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

 - posted 11-18-2017 08:44 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
the colorarc300 is a better version of the marc300

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5199
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

 - posted 11-21-2017 08:27 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh Scott -- you cut me to the quick -- no mention of the Eastman 25B? It certainly will give the Kinoton a run for its money.

I have worked with both the Eiki and Elmo and I am not a fan of the Eiki. And for the record, I will take a manual load like the Pageant or a JAN or even an old B&H 300 series upgraded with a xenon light source over any so-called auto-load any day.

Stick a xenon source behind a JAN and I am a happy pup, although, depending on what you expect to play (Hollywood features or home-grown reversal stuff), any 16mm projector that doesn't have a slit focus adjustment has heavy strikes against it. Convert an Eastman 25B for long play reel operation and replace the old carbon arc with a 1600W xenon and you will be projection the limits of 16mm on the screen. I once walked into a screening in the Brooklyn Museum and stopped for awhile to watch before I went
up to the booth -- this booth had 35mm changeover and an Eastman converted for long-play and tweaked by James Bond of Full Aperture, Chicago. Only after a few minutes did I realize what I was looking at was 16mm, not 35. Other than the picture not being quite as bright, it was THAT good. Of course the print was what we would call a show print and Technicolor, but still, it was enough to really show how good 16mm can look with a great projector.

Look at this nice conversion on ebay for 2 grand -- notice the extension he's put on the supply and take-up arms to utilize the long-play reels.

BTW, not-for-nuthin as we say in Brooklyn, it was TEACHERS who ruined the advance of 16mm projector design. Instead of focusing on better design, all the manufactures had to focus on how to make their projectors thread themselves. Evidently their marketing research showed that teachers in general -- you know, the ones that teach or children -- were to stupid to learn how to threat a simple projector, even with a diagram right in front of them...which was a win for all us A/V Squad geeks; I can't tell you how many classes I got out of because they needed someone to run an "educational movie." Heheh.

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