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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » XD10 w/SMPTE timecode

   
Author Topic: XD10 w/SMPTE timecode
Allan Lyman
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: COPENHAGEN, S /copenhagen,denmark
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted 10-15-2017 12:59 PM      Profile for Allan Lyman   Email Allan Lyman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello
Has anyone tried using a smpte timecode generator on a DTS XD10.
I tried with an old Sony,but not sure its smpte.it works almost perfect,but it jumbs a bit forward and backward in the timecode display on the XD10,just a few seconds.And the sound follows this bouncing back/forward.sounding awful
I tried with two different units and its the same.

alan

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9425
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-18-2017 09:08 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The JSK or the CB electronics will work well but only if the source disks were encoded for SMPTE not DTS time code

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Allan Lyman
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: COPENHAGEN, S /copenhagen,denmark
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted 10-19-2017 03:01 AM      Profile for Allan Lyman   Email Allan Lyman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ahh,so this is probably the issue.That the disc is for DTS timecode and not SMPTE

thanks
Alan

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Steve Roberts
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Whitchurch Shropshire UK
Registered: Jul 2016


 - posted 10-27-2017 03:52 AM      Profile for Steve Roberts   Email Steve Roberts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I want to try the same thing but with a DTS time code generator but have no idea of how bet to go about it as I left the cinemas in 1986 and never went back.
Now I have 2 DP70/AA1 and a reel of 70mm film with a DTS time code so I need to get to grips with this.

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Allan Lyman
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: COPENHAGEN, S /copenhagen,denmark
Registered: Apr 2016


 - posted 10-27-2017 05:28 AM      Profile for Allan Lyman   Email Allan Lyman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve

do you have a DTS timecode generator.If so you can use it on all DTS units.The XD10 has the possible of getting a SMPTE timecode,and in the menue you set the film number

alan

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9425
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-27-2017 10:27 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The JSK unit could have the eprom reprogrammed for generating DTS BUT when firmware v146(?) came out DTS blocked the use of external generators at the demands of the film studios
So the only way is to play back the print

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1538
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-27-2017 02:38 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Was there ever a 'Special Venue' (SV) version of the XD10?

On the DTS 6D SV you can kick switch between DTS and SMPTE TC via a jumper, I used to wire a toggle switch across said jumper to make life that bit easier.

There was some issue with the DTS vs SMPTE TC I recall, had something to do with reel numbers.

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Steve Roberts
Film Handler

Posts: 45
From: Whitchurch Shropshire UK
Registered: Jul 2016


 - posted 10-27-2017 05:37 PM      Profile for Steve Roberts   Email Steve Roberts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi All.
I bought a DTS time code generator with the DTS unit. As the time code generator was only £20 and the DTS £50 I bought the 2.
Do I understand that I plug the time code generator into the projector DTS input?

I am one of these people who like to try things. The DTS unit has the out put for the sub-titles projector so I asked some friend and one just gave the projector to me. He had been trying to use it as a normal video projector!

I want to fit the DTS reader next to the mag head on my DP70/AA1. as I have 4 of the DTS readers I am going to see if I can strip one down to just the lamp and pick up then fit it to a spare head cover so I can remove it when it is not being used.

Steve

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9425
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-28-2017 10:35 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The timecode generator will only play for about 5 min of a feature before it kicks you out DTS incorporated that at the studios demand
To make it work even before that you had to enter the serrial number of the film and then the reel number feet and frames

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 359
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 10-28-2017 11:02 AM      Profile for Daniel Schulz   Author's Homepage   Email Daniel Schulz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Pete Naples
Was there ever a 'Special Venue' (SV) version of the XD10?

On the DTS 6D SV you can kick switch between DTS and SMPTE TC via a jumper, I used to wire a toggle switch across said jumper to make life that bit easier.

There was some issue with the DTS vs SMPTE TC I recall, had something to do with reel numbers.

There was not a separate SV version of the XD10. In addition to the timecode switch, the 6DSV had an additional APTX processing chip (so 6 instead of 5) so that it could process 6 discrete channels of audio (many Special Venue applications used IMAX-style audio setups, with 6.0 mixes including a Voice of God channel, rather than conventional 5.1). The XD10 was always a full 8 channel unit, so a separate SV variant was not needed.

I don't remember how to switch from DTS mode to SMPTE mode, though.

The main issue with using SMPTE mode (if you can call it an issue) is that it was typically sourced from a tach-to-timcode generator and so ran as a longplay. If at any point you lost sync, or if your print didn't match your soundtrack, it wasn't easy to regain sync. Printed DTS timecode on the film, OTOH, was constantly relaying reel and frame information to the player, so perfect sync was maintained throughout the presentation.

That said, a lot of Special Venue sites ran DTS/Datasat units for years on end in SMPTE mode. It was a pretty robust system.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1553
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 10-28-2017 10:45 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually the DTS TC generator will play the entire reel that you arm it for. The player will stop at the end of the reel file (as the reel number and time code will no longer match DTS time code "starts over" so to speak for every reel)but the TC generator will keep counting up. I was using one to test many players a few months ago for a large 70mm project [Wink]

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9425
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-29-2017 01:01 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unless DTS released to you a new firmware for the JSK they will not play more than 5 min of the reel on any player with the last firmware for the 6 or 6d which i believe is the same as the XD 10 used for time code

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1538
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-29-2017 05:10 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
quote: Pete Naples
Was there ever a 'Special Venue' (SV) version of the XD10?

On the DTS 6D SV you can kick switch between DTS and SMPTE TC via a jumper, I used to wire a toggle switch across said jumper to make life that bit easier.

There was some issue with the DTS vs SMPTE TC I recall, had something to do with reel numbers.
There was not a separate SV version of the XD10. In addition to the timecode switch, the 6DSV had an additional APTX processing chip (so 6 instead of 5) so that it could process 6 discrete channels of audio (many Special Venue applications used IMAX-style audio setups, with 6.0 mixes including a Voice of God channel, rather than conventional 5.1). The XD10 was always a full 8 channel unit, so a separate SV variant was not needed.

I don't remember how to switch from DTS mode to SMPTE mode, though.

The main issue with using SMPTE mode (if you can call it an issue) is that it was typically sourced from a tach-to-timcode generator and so ran as a longplay. If at any point you lost sync, or if your print didn't match your soundtrack, it wasn't easy to regain sync. Printed DTS timecode on the film, OTOH, was constantly relaying reel and frame information to the player, so perfect sync was maintained throughout the presentation.

That said, a lot of Special Venue sites ran DTS/Datasat units for years on end in SMPTE mode. It was a pretty robust system.

Thanks Daniel,

I only ever dealt with the 6DSV. Many years ago I had to replace a failed 6DSV with a 6D, moving that IC you mentioned to turn my replacement 6D into a 6DSV. Nerve wracking stuff as I was in the middle of nowhere and didn't have the appropriate IC extractor. However with some Macgyvering I managed.

The DTS / SMPTE TC switch was accomplished via a jumper, I can't remember if it was on the MB or one of the DTS boards. Anyway as I said I wired a toggle switch across it to make the switching simple.
The venue in question went to DTS TC from the films because, initally they had been playing true SV films, which tended to be around 40 minutes long. Laterally they started playing feature length 8/70 films and 5/70 films. There was some issue once you hit the 1 hour mark with the TC generator, I can't remember the details now. Too long ago.

The place in question was still using a Peavey CinemAcoustics processor until last year! It had been fed by the DTS6DSV via the proprietary DTS digital output.

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Daniel Schulz
Master Film Handler

Posts: 359
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 10-29-2017 05:15 PM      Profile for Daniel Schulz   Author's Homepage   Email Daniel Schulz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
Unless DTS released to you a new firmware for the JSK they will not play more than 5 min of the reel on any player with the last firmware for the 6 or 6d which i believe is the same as the XD 10 used for time code
The 5 minute rule is content-dependent, not firmware-dependent. Once the Enhanced Security regime was implemented, the discs would stop playing after 5 minutes unless you had real timecode reading off a film print. But older discs would still play just fine. You can tell by looking at the file extension on the discs - .aud files are not encrypted, .aue files are encrypted.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1553
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-02-2017 08:26 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I can confirm for fact that both "Dunkirk" and "The Master" will play out the full real.

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