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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » PR1030 oil pump

   
Author Topic: PR1030 oil pump
Tom Ruff
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2011


 - posted 08-07-2017 05:04 PM      Profile for Tom Ruff   Email Tom Ruff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im standing here watching a Simplex PR1030 run very nicely in reverse. It has been running a 10 foot long loop with some purposely ugly splices without any breaks or jams for 30 minutes. Meanwhile the oil pump doesn't pump in reverse. I assume the factory guys had figured it would back a 2000 foot reel from tail to head without it, but sometimes it is bad to assume. the bottom sprocket gear and vertical shaft are splashing a little oil, but not much. Anybody have any thoughts? should I add a small electric pump?

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Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1538
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 08-07-2017 06:04 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't had any direct experience with the PR-1030, but one of the
screening rooms I've worked at had Simplex XL, which is practically the
same projector, that they used for dailies which ran forward & reverse,
and I know that oil pump either had some sort of modification or was a
completely re-designed unit, that allowed it to pump in both forward &
reverse. I never had to pull it apart, so I don't know how it worked.

(It's also possible SIMPLEX made bi-directional pumps on special order)

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Tom Ruff
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2011


 - posted 08-07-2017 06:55 PM      Profile for Tom Ruff   Email Tom Ruff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
you would think they would have made a bidirectional one for it, but even the parts list shows the same number for all of them.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 2943
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-07-2017 07:19 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The pump itself is the same for a reversing model..but the tubing block/mounting casting is not. It had, IIRC, a check valve assembly that would allow the oil to flow up the outlet tube in reverse or forward.

I used to have that assembly in my spares, I had built a few of those rock and roll heads in my day..two of them for Miramax.

You will find the parts in the studio model parts manual, ... I have a copy buried somewhere around here.

You have to be careful not to run those heads in reverse for too long...I used to recommend no more than 5-10 minutes max, and that was with it pumping oil.

If the pump is only set up to pump in forward, my rule of thumb was no more than 2-3 minutes in reverse followed by at least the same amount of time in forward, to get the intermittent relubricated.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4051
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-08-2017 08:45 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oprah had the Strong forward / reverse unmarried setup in her Chicago HARPO screening room. (Wasn't that a modified VIP base?) Whatever it was was horrible because the three spindles at the base were driven by a single belt with what looked like Moviola clutches (because two spindles get driven going forward; one in reverse. Winding back up to the picture feed arm was done with a separate motor.) All I know is that during an unmarried show for a pair of famous Chicago-based critics, one machine could not handle driving the takeups as the reels filled. A colleague had to spin them by hand lest the film dump on the floor. Never did use the reverse capability but I never ran any dailies over there. Bear in mind that this was a screening room designed by video people. Access to the booth was ONLY through the theatre. Duh.

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Tom Ruff
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2011


 - posted 08-08-2017 11:58 AM      Profile for Tom Ruff   Email Tom Ruff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tony. hows Idaho?
I didnt notice the valves etc, but it should still pump in reverse. I will add a little pump to it.
I had a couple of those preview machines with the moviola clutches The belt tensioning was a problem. Right now this machine has AC torque motors. Im building it DC constant tension takeups. It will spend its life chasing video files to compare original prints to "remastered" files so lots of back and forth.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 2943
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-27-2017 10:31 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom ... Idaho is interesting, lol. Far cry from L.A. Lots less traffic and stress to deal with. But this last winter was horrible, got stuck here in town and missed work on a few days. (But county plows were good about getting the road re-opened within 24 hours.) At the peak I had snow three feet deep over my entire property with some 6-8 foot drifts.

Anyways, back on topic..

Adding a pump is a good idea, aim it's output at the top slinger like the regular pump and you should be fine.

I would still advise limiting the reverse time, mainly because the film will stick in the trap and gate with extended reversing. The studio I mentioned had a few issues with "green" prints because of that.

If possible, Film-Guard the prints to help prevent sticking.

And since you are doing transfers, you probably already know this but for those reading the thread, I have to add that in ANY reversing application, the film gate and trap MUST be kept spotlessly cleaned for EVERY reel. Film-Guard works great for that too...

I was actually able to get a Simplex 70mm head to run in reverse for a short time....the mag tracks' added drag would only allow about 50 feet or so before the friction built up to dangerous levels. This was just an experiment to see if it could be done, using old trailers for test film. I am willing to bet that newer 70mm with DTS timecode could run much longer in reverse..but the stress on the intermittent's star and cam is very high..(One thing I never liked about the Simplex 35/70 intermittent..the star and cam were, in size anyway, pretty identical to the 35mm only version.)

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Tom Ruff
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2011


 - posted 09-04-2017 05:13 AM      Profile for Tom Ruff   Email Tom Ruff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The reversing machines could be such a hassle. I had four generations of MTM.'s Version 1 and 2 were possibly the worst projectors ever made. V1 could have worked with better servos and servo amps. It was the one that shifted gears inside the intermittent to go to high speed. When it ran (or ran away) it would go about 8 times speed. It got ugly when the servo drive servo would go stupid and it went from stop to 8x instantly. If they had ever worked out the gear changing thing it wold have been a pretty good machine. V2 watched the film and had to be realigned between color and b/w. and if it saw grease pencil it would suck the loop up and explode the intermittent servo amp. It was always terrifying to be in the ADR control room because you could hear it mangle the film on the slightest imperfection. The magnatechs and RCA's were pretty good. If you come across the studio manual it would be a nice addition to the Warehouse. Ive got a pretty amazing direct drive self contained servo motor on this one. Just working out a few bugs on ramping and chasing time code. Ill add pics when it is done.

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