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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » FilmGuard Effects on Plastic Reels (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: FilmGuard Effects on Plastic Reels
David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 04-25-2017 09:11 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First, let me say that I'm jealous of all of you who have had the opportunity to make a career out of film projection and restorative archival. Since I was a little kid and Dad let me be "projectionist" with the Showtime 8 and our family vacation movies, I was hooked. I still have the projector (it works perfectly) and all our family memories, which leads me to the reason for posting...

I've decided to tackle doing a frame-by-frame digitization of all the old 8mm I have. The film seems to be in good shape in their cans/boxes, but regardless, I thought I would start by cleaning and lubricating the film, some of which dates back to the mid 50s.

I ran across FilmGuard disciples all over the 'net, so I believe that will be the way I go, albeit by hand, using a wet microfiber cloth in one direction, and a dry one in reverse. I've even found some NIB Craig rewinds for the project.

My question is this: several of the 5" and 7" reels I have are plastic of some sort. Can film treated with FilmGuard be safely stored long term on plastic reels, or should I consider winding them back onto steel reels after cleaning/treatment? Someone online was saying that FG would damage plastic over time, so I don't want to take the chance. Bear in mind that I don't know the composition of the plastic reels (they are most likely not archival grade), nor the film.

Also, I've run into many conflicting methods on how to clean film by hand, so if there is a definitive or accepted way to do this that anyone could point me to, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers!
-David

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 04-25-2017 09:44 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Your friend is confusing products. FilmGuard will not damage plastic reels. You are fine.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 6840
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 04-27-2017 11:24 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If my microfiber you mean like the ones O'Reillys sells for waxing cars, then the fibers aren't really micro enough. The best case scenario is that some of the fibers will come off on the film; the worst is that a piece of abrasive crud will lodge in between them, and scratch the film that is wound along it thereafter.

One option that is used in at least two of the world's leading film archives that I'm aware of, are Selvyt cloths. The surface is smooth enough that it's near impossible for bits of debris to get caught in them, and they hold enough moisture to apply the FG evenly. They can also be washed in a regular laundry machine. I've used Selvyts impregnated with Filmguard for bench cleaning many times, and with good results.

The only potential gotcha I'd flag up is as follows. When I first started using FG for bench cleaning in England in the late '90s, I found that it would sometimes dissolve the glue in tape splices, making them come apart in projection. There then followed about ten years when I was working in jobs that didn't involve any film handling, until I went back into the booth in 2014, having emigrated to the US in the meantime. Since then I've used FG-impregnated Selvyts for bench cleaning a few times, including on reels with tape splices in them, and have not had this problem at all.

So maybe this problem was specific to the Jack Roe splicing tape sold in the UK, and the others are all OK. But I would still be inclined to check any reel with tape splices in it, say, 20 minutes after treatment, before putting them through a scanner or any other film transport.

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Bill Brandenstein
Master Film Handler

Posts: 327
From: Santa Clarita, CA
Registered: Jul 2013


 - posted 04-27-2017 09:33 PM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my more limited experience using FG on 16mm, you'd have to dump a LOT of FG on it to dissolve most tape splices, which is essentially to soak it. But you're not supposed to soak the film with it, only coat it, which doesn't seem to soften the adhesive enough to separate it.

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 04-28-2017 08:15 AM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen folks mention using FilmRenew for soaking film in really bad shape; it would have to be an act of last resort, I would think.

It was also noted that FilmRenew could loosen splices, but not FilmGuard. But they said that ANY slow drying treatment (like FilmGuard) be used with steel reels only, which is why I originally posted. Apparently, plastic reels will discolor; to me, that says that there is some kind of long-term degradation taking place, so now I'm confused as to the type of cleaner to use, as well.

Leo, I planned on using Pec-Pads for the process, but will look into the Selvyt cloths you mention.

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 05-19-2017 03:00 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, I'm going to go the FilmGuard route, in conjunction with PecPads. Have not yet decided on the type of reels to use for long term storage - maybe eventually the Tuscan reels/cans.

But tell me, where can I purchase smaller amounts of FilmGuard? The smallest quantity I've found is 32 ounces. I probably have less than 1k feet of film to deal with, and from what I've read, a little goes a long way.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8233
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 05-19-2017 03:21 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David Brigner
I probably have less than 1k feet of film to deal with, and from what I've read, a little goes a long way.
Little secret about FG:

It's a great lubricant where ever a squeak is heard, a fantastic adhesive and tar remover.

It's better than WD40.

-Monte

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 05-19-2017 04:13 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Monte. Good to know. Maybe TurtleWax tar and bug remover would work just as well on film... lol

So 32oz is the smallest quantity of FilmGuard available, then?

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 05-29-2017 07:59 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, from the deafening silence, I assume 32oz is the minimum quantity available, then. I guess I can put the leftovers next to that can of hardly used WD-40 that I've had for 30 years...

So, the next question is, where in the heck do you buy the stuff? I've visited the approved distributor links, but all seem to deal with professional equipment, etc. but I've not seen anyone carrying FilmGuard.

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3643
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-29-2017 08:14 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DU20TZ6

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 05-29-2017 08:53 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Adam. Wow, pricier than I expected. That's the only place it's available? I would have expected B&H, Urbanski, or some of the other photo/film houses to carry it, which to me would truly speak to its efficacy and popularity.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17638
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-29-2017 10:54 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
B&H deals with bulk items for the mass consumer.

Urbanski is a guy shipping stuff out of his house to mostly small gauge hobbyists.

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David Brigner
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2017


 - posted 05-30-2017 08:02 PM      Profile for David Brigner   Email David Brigner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, I was just hoping I could find someone who serves the hobbyist/one-time project crowd like me, with smaller quantities to match. Looks like I'll have enough left over to keep my local cineplex in stock for a while...

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Jason Metcalfe
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 132
From: Austin, TX, U.S.
Registered: May 2010


 - posted 05-31-2017 04:58 PM      Profile for Jason Metcalfe   Email Jason Metcalfe   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone have experience using Webril Wipes for film cleaning?

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1813
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 06-01-2017 09:16 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
> Does anyone have experience using Webril Wipes for film cleaning?

I tried them years ago, and although I had no problems, I felt that they were potentially too abrasive for film cleaning, so I stopped using them.

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