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Author Topic: Interstellar and fader 7 David E. Nedrow Master Film Handler Posts: 368 From: Columbus, OH, USA Registered: Oct 2008 posted 11-07-2014 02:40 PM                        So i get the projectionist letter asking that Interstellar be run at fader 7. We normally run around 4.5-5.0 depending on film. Out of curiosity, I ran the first 20 and last 40 minutes of Intersellar at fader 7. Holy moly, it was overwhelming. I understand what they're trying to do (sensory overload), but I couldn't imagine sitting through two hours and forty minutes of this. You'd feel as though you just came from a heavy metal rock concert. Running at a 6 is bearable, but if I go much lower some of the dialog gets lost.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 11-07-2014 02:58 PM                     I mean, heavy metal rock concerts do turn me on. No, but seriously. It's no different than any other letter accompanying a film asking the same thing. In an ideal room (and probably one with a full audience), it would sound good with the fader at 7. But in rooms with poor acoustics and/or poor tuning, there's just no way. It's common at many theaters to run most films around 5-6, and this is no exceptionk.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 11-07-2014 03:22 PM                        wrong thread please ignore  |  IP: Logged Terry Lynn-Stevens Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1081 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Dec 2012 posted 11-07-2014 03:25 PM                     A properly equipped and calibrated theater should be able to run the movie at fader level 7 with no problems. My guess is that the theater is set up wrong if you are running film at 4.0 or 5.0  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-07-2014 03:40 PM                     Terry very few theatres would run at 7 if they did the average patron would complain that it was far to loud If you ever were in a mixing theatre you would find the level uncomfortable  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-07-2014 04:44 PM                     As someone who has had to run world premiers at 7.0 (and any other studio screening) where the rooms where set up, not only properly, but to the studio's liking...they are WAY TOO Effin loud! I swear those guys have to be partially deaf by listing to such loud sounds all day long. I've had people bang on the booth door to turn it down while the studio guy insisted on leaving it where it was and though it sounded awesome. There is no doubt that, with lower THD, one can definitely run things louder with less ear strain. Distortion can be quite grating, if not painful. So there is definite truth in the statement of a well set up room (good acoustics with good speakers) will be able to play louder with less discomfort than one that is lesser. However, loud is loud and these guys like it too loud, in my opinion. An exception is Larry Blake...I can run his films at 7.0 in most theatres without complaint (he mixed Oceans 11, as well as the others and many other). He doesn't get the dialog lost in the mix either. What I'm hearing from my people on Interstellar is that you can run your fader at its normal volume to get the dialog...but the effects will just be painfully nasty. Nothing like having people wanting it to end to appreciate your masterpiece.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-07-2014 05:54 PM                     I always ignore those requests to run a movie at a particular fader setting. quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens A properly equipped and calibrated theater should be able to run the movie at fader level 7 with no problems. My guess is that the theater is set up wrong if you are running film at 4.0 or 5.0 I used to drink that Kool-Aid about properly setup theatres should be able to play everything at 7.0 but that is bullshit because the movies are mixed to different peoples' tastes -- and some of them are stupid people. So, as with setting up a sound system, you've got to use your ears (and some common sense). Here's a thought: Why not simply test the damn movie? During testing, I start at 3.9 just in case it's stupid loud. If it sounds "dim" (like it should) then I'll try 7.0 and wait for "normal" dialogue. That is, no whispering or shouting. Along the way, I'm also listening to music and SFX. The judgment call is usually based on dialogue but, sometimes, M&E force a compromise. For DCP's, I will sample several moments throughout the movie. For film, I will jump back-n-forth between 2 reels. I do not "ride the gain" throughout the movie. If it gets too loud, and we have to turn it down, then it stays there, and I update the inspection report to reflect the final fader setting. My job is not to remix the movie for the filmmaker.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-07-2014 06:15 PM                        quote: Manny Knowles The judgment call is usually based on dialogue but, sometimes, M&E force a compromise. That's exactly what I do here. Our system sounds just fine at 7 and it really rattles the rooftop, but I just don't like it that loud. It's nothing to do with sound quality -- it's just louder than I (and most normal people) like. We play most movies somewhere between 4.8 and 5.5.  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-07-2014 07:05 PM                     Most theatres I've worked at, the fader is usually set around, 5.5 - 6, for most features. There are maybe 2 theatres I've heard that with a fader setting of 7 was perfectly fine and one of those was Seattle Cinerama.  |  IP: Logged Jason Whyte Expert Film Handler Posts: 132 From: Victoria, BC, Canada Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-07-2014 10:27 PM                        Capitol 6 #2 in Victoria BC could handle being set at 7 and like Ron said, Seattle Cinerama usually always runs at 7 as well. Both have outstanding sound quality. For the most part features are run at 5.5-6 in Victoria and that's pretty loud enough.  |  IP: Logged Steve Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 211 From: Leeds, West Yorks, UK Registered: Apr 2008 posted 11-08-2014 09:30 AM                     For once we didn't get a letter, here in the UK. I was playing at 5.5 then 5. Then around the last hour reduced to 4.5 on my CP750. The dialogue was still clear enough but the LF frequencies were shaking things in our concessions stand! It certainly has some energy, in the mix!  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-08-2014 01:51 PM                     Oh...and let me add another tidbit to the mix...as it were. 7.0 is not 7.0 everywhere...even if calibrated by the same equipment! Starting with the CP650, Dolby changed their reference level with the PN source. If you compare a CP500 or earlier and the CP650 or later processor...all else being equal...the CP650/CP750 will be about 3dB louder! So which level is correct? Did USL, QSC or your favorite brand of processor also have such shenanigans? Heck, QSC and Sony don't even have a 7.0...unless you count -7.0dB or +7.0dB. And what difference does it make in the actual number anyway? As a business, you HAVE to set it such that you receive the least number of complaints. That is just good customer service. So unless you are doing a studio screening...where your customer IS the studio, it really doesn't matter. The only downside to your magic number being in the "4.0" range is that is typically a "hinge point" for a digital fader and the characteristics, as it tries to mimic an analog potentiometer will get much more active below 4.0 than above. So a little adjustment will have a greater effect. With an analog potentiometer...the "sweetspot" of the fader is around 70% (or 7.0). That is point where small adjustments have small effects as well as allowing 6-10dB more "gain" at the top end for quiet movies. Back when 7.0 was created as the reference, we had discrete VCAs (voltage controlled amplifiers) and as you went down below 7.0...their tracking was NOT uniform. Down around 4.0 you are starting to move things by 10dB (or more) with small changes. You have a logarithmic system (sound) with a linear appearing volume control.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 11-08-2014 05:58 PM                     A projectionist letter advising you to turn the fader to "7" is just a sign of plain incompetence from whoever composed that letter. I really don't know why they're still doing this. Why can't they just write something like: This movie contains some scenes with very powerful sound effects, please make sure you deliver them to your audience with maximum impact without compromising the overall sound quality. As Steve already eloquently put it, "7.0" here is different from "7.0" over here. And for many theaters out there, the "7.0" is more an indication on the Richter scale of the earthquake it will create if you really want to run it at such levels... If you ask me, whoever created this mix was also incompetent. If you do not want to mess around with your presets, you either end up with muffled dialogue or with sound effects that blow your speakers and your patrons eardrums.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-08-2014 06:04 PM                     It would appear that Interstellar is a movie that requires a Rane PI-14. It clearly needs a little this or that to it. http://www.rane.com/pi14.html  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 11-08-2014 06:36 PM                     What happens if you switch on the Glory but forget to enable the Power?  |  IP: Logged

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