my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » CP200 - trouble getting signal thru (Page 1)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Author Topic: CP200 - trouble getting signal thru Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-25-2012 11:07 PM                     Hi. I'm pressing a CP200 into service that I got a few years back, and I'm having trouble. I talked to Tony B, and he suggested I get a stream started here. So here are the symptoms. (Projector is a Christie P35GPS-AT with usual stereo cell - Finally got the mechanical issues sorted out!!!) Non-sync (format 60) works fine. (with projector running) Select Format 04, Projector 1, and press GO. Non-sync of course silences, but no sound comes out, and the Dolby level meters are not moving at all. Open up the front panel of the Processor Unit, and the Optical card (cat108) and the mag card (cat201) show Projector 2 is selected, even though the Control Unit shows that the proper projector has been selected, and we are, in fact, in Format 04. Oh crap. So I switch the cables on the back from Proj1 Optical In to Proj2 Optical In, and try it again. Select Format 04, Projector 2, and press GO. No change except on the Control Unit panel. Same with, just as a test, Format 1 (Academy Mono) Lights on the Optical and Mag Cards unchanged, and no signal. Switch back to Non-sync, (Format 60) and sound returns *and* the Optical Card and the Mag card now both show Projector 1 is selected, though all the indicators on the Control Unit are correct. Processor Unit Inventory: cat108C, cat201, cat143-1 (non-sync card), cat 141a (switch card), copycat280, cat22, copycat280, cat22, cat109C, cat109C, cat 109C (meter/filter cards), cat207 (bridged: 68, 117, 134, (then snipped, apparently) 151, (also snipped) 29, 251 to 255 with a wire, and on the left, H, J, K, M, N, P, and S. Next - cat560, (upgraded Optical Bass Extension Card) cat150E, (Surround Decoder Card) cat207 (bridged with various value resistors - some 2.2k, some look like 1.3k, others) 6, 21, 35, 113, 114, 121, 124, 148, (bridged straight) 12, 55, 58, 79, 109, 142, 153, 164, 184, 187, 206, 237, 255, and A, B, C, D, F, H, J, K, L, M, and N. Also cat 141A (switch card) cat 142, (dual filter/equalizer card) cat141A (another switch card) TMI, I'm sure. Sorry. But I'm not sure what you need to know, and what you don't. This ring a bell with anyone? Thanks very much. Be well.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-26-2012 06:07 AM                     I would start by making sure all of the ribbon cables are inserted correctly between the processor and control units and be very careful to match up pin-1 on each connector with pin 1 on the ribbon cable connector (has a line or arrow head on the connector).  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 06-26-2012 07:08 PM                     Steve, you are the main reason I told Jim to post this problem on here..I figured if anyone could help, it would be you (or Sam Chavez or Brad.) Jim did mention to me that his ribbon cable jumpers are "aftermarket" so it is possible they are not constructed pin for pin like the originals. That said, do you know where he can get the right ones? BTW I have a vested interest in this thread as I will be doing the tuneup on his system when all the parts are together.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-26-2012 09:11 PM                     There is nothing special about the ribbon connectors. they are 2x10 on the small ones (I forget the larger one's size). But you DO have to ensure that you get Pin-1 correct on each. Dolby also numbers them different than most...they go 1-10 on the top row and 2-20 on the bottom. Most put odd numbers on the top, evens on the bottom. The spacing on them is standard 100mil. I've seen more than one CP200 not function correctly on the control lines from ribbon cables not being put in correctly.  |  IP: Logged Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-27-2012 03:11 PM                     Checked. The sockets are all format restricted, so you can't plug them in wrong. (see photo) Even verified manually that pin one matched to pin one all six places. Also checked male sides to see if a pin had bent somewhere. Everything checked out okay.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-27-2012 06:39 PM                       I don't see any header plugs on the control and processor unit sockets that appear to be empty. These sockets were made to interconnect the aux rack if any. If no aux rack, these are supposed to be stuffed with specific shorting plugs in those ribbon cable slots. Hard to tell from this picture. Not saying it has anything to do with the projector 2 issue though. I believe there were 2 207's stuffed differently as in special 1 and 2. These are not interchangeable. Also,was there ever an SRA5 installed with this unit? If so, the mods need to be undone back to stock or you will never get optical sound through the unit. Regarding forced projector 2; there is a place on the processor unit where you choose 2 or 4 projector operation with suitcase jumpers. These are sometimes butchered/modified. It is always possible someone made a mod to force projector 2, either on the 156 or maybe one of the 154's. Does it go to projector 2 in all film related format #'s, or just the optical ones ie;. 01 thru 18? I can't believe how much I've forgotten over the years about this.  |  IP: Logged Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-27-2012 09:16 PM                     Sam, you're correct about the sockets/plugs. If there isn't an obvious cable coming from the socket in the pic, then it's empty. No AUX unit, and the unit's histories are unknown. I bought it from an eBay outfit (in person pickup) in L.A. called Salesbaron. They didn't have anything to say about it other than it was working when it was removed. I had LIT go through it, and they stuffed the remaining cards, and upgraded a few to the list I posted. The two 207 cards are jumpered differently, and I haven't touched them, except to remove them one at a time to inventory the bridges, and put it back. All cards are in their prescribed positions. DA-20 or other changes? Let me know what to look for, and I'll report back. Til then, not sure what to look for. Aha. Wackiness ensues. There's a change in behavior since last night. In Format 04, Selecting Projector 1, *both* the Projector 1 and Projector 2 indicator lights on the 108 and 201 cards light up at half brightness, the Dolby levels peg on L, C, R, and Surround, and there's a soft whine out the speakers. Selecting Projector 2, the whine disappears, the indicator for 2 is on, 1 is off, and the Dolby levels are zero again. So I changed the solar cell wiring from 1 to 2. No change. So I took the solar cell off the CP200 completely. No change. So much for that idea. One other thing. Format 03 is the same, and Format 01 (Academy Mono) the Dolby levels are only to about 2/3. I don't have any other formats between 00 and 18. The all blink 'nope'. Other standard format numbers - 35 and 70 mag perform just like I described originally. Locked at Projector 2, but no Dolby level activity. (but then again, they're not connected to any head...) Here's something interesting: Format 66 (Dolby Test) used to come out the center channel. (only) Now it doesn't come out anywhere. If it helps, the cards were all pulled (one at a time) and reseated on the Processor Unit only, and no cards were touched at all on the Control Unit. Why do I get the idea that I have the Devil's spawn here?  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 06-27-2012 10:55 PM                     You probably do have the devil's spawn. Other than the missing jumper headers for the AUX unit sockets Sam mentioned, my next thing to suggest is that you need to meter ALL of the DC voltages coming from the PSU. Dolby is notorious for crappy power supplies and those PSU-1's are among the worst. They might need a full re-cap and replacement diode bridges. If you can't figure this out soon we need to schedule my service call. This exact situation is one reason I don't buy this kind of stuff off of fleabay. At least when you buy off F-T there is a good chance the seller is honest and the gear works. Remember I have a very nice CP-500 on hand just in case.....we need to discuss it.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-27-2012 11:18 PM                       It does sound like you have a bit of a mess there. The audio symptoms and the logic symptoms are two different issues so don't confuse the two, you have enough to deal with already. The blinking lights just mean there is no validity diode stuffed. No matter though, if the unit is stuck in projector 2 in all formats, it's a more global problem. Unless there is something really important that only the CP200 will do for you, I would move on to the CP500.  |  IP: Logged Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-28-2012 12:11 AM                     With the PS1-B loaded, (powering the two CP units, and the MPU) voltages at the terminal block, absolute values, relative to ground +14 pin: 13.08 volts -14 pin: 13.18 volts +24 pin: 25.7 volts Oh, and yes... shut right back off...  |  IP: Logged Jim Henk Master Film Handler Posts: 364 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-28-2012 03:57 AM                     Been doing a little research on the 500. One of the big reasons I was working on getting the 200 working was for the straightforward flexibility to also run 35mm or 70mm in the various mag formats that I might come across. Then run digital the next day just because an interesting print showed up. (or run for visitors that might have a reel or ? they'd like to see...) For mag, just wire the MPU, align, and away you go. I notice that the 500 seems to be mag agnostic, and I've read some articles about getting around that. Some tout using a PanaStereo unit, (never seen one) and I've also read about using Dolby NR units - the cat 363. A studio unit for NR in recording? (only seen pictures, but it seems like real overkill...) And I have seen people saying to use an MPU (have one) but with qualifications. Kinda tricking the system into doing what it was never intended to do. What's the current consensus on configuration for being able to switch over between various formats nowadays if you use a 500? Or will that always be mad scientist territory? I need an education here. (nothing new there...)  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-28-2012 09:24 AM                       The 200 is the best choice for mag and multiple projectors. The 500 can't do mag in a straightforward way so if the mag is a real requirement rather than a nice to have feature, you need to get the 200 up and running. To do this, you are going to need some real expert help (on the 200) to make this happen and there are not a lot of those around. The unit has been messed with entirely too much for me to get involved. That leaves Steve Guttag if you can get him interested. Also, there are not a lot of spare parts around as there were about 1,500 made and most have been tossed in the wave of D-Cinema installs. The power supply seems OK BTW.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-28-2012 09:29 AM                     quote: Jim Henk I bought it from an eBay outfit (in person pickup) in L.A. called Salesbaron. Some of his CP-200's came from the old Warner Hollywood lot screening rooms. I've bought Dolby equipment from him and it all worked. But his CP-200 stuff was alittle over priced and missing cards.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 06-28-2012 09:32 AM                       A CP200 missing cards is called parts.  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2012 09:03 PM                     I'm with Sam on undoing any mods. Go download the sra5 manual and the da-20 manual and study the described changes to the 200 and back out any you find. The DA-20 you really have to hack up the backplane so that might be it. Especially check the diodes and jumpers on the 207. Sam was great help to me getting my fleabay 200 up about 4 years ago.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.