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Author Topic: DA20 reverting to SR because of edge cue? Bernie Anderson Jr Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: Woodbridge, New Jersey Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-15-2012 11:33 PM                        Hi guys, This is something I'm running into at home with my DA20/CP65/Cat 702 setup. I'm using edge cue foil for 2 proj. changeover automation and it seems that the cue is making the DA20 revert to analog for about 1 sec. Its a standard precut edge foil cue that came from Strong, so it measures about 3-4 inches long. Some my thought would be, to just swap inboard and outboard cues (since the other cue is for curtain control, which is really only used at the end of the feature and can be cut shorter to cue the relay). Any thoughts? Thanks Bernie  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 04-16-2012 12:42 PM                     Chances are, yes, it is the cue that is causing the reversion. If you place it on the film such that it covers the SRD track, 3-4 inches is plenty long to cause a drop out. If you are folding the cue over the edge of the print, that will likely cause just enough of a shift when that part of the film goes through the reader that the track will drop out. What type of cue detector are you using? If a proximity type, the cue should not have to be longer than half an inch; even shorter should work just fine. There are the older type of readers that require the foil to make contact between two rollers, but I am not personally familair with those and don't know how long the cues need to be for those to work. But I would think 4 inches is way more than enough.  |  IP: Logged Bernie Anderson Jr Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: Woodbridge, New Jersey Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-16-2012 05:25 PM                        The cue readers are the old Kelmar contact cue readers with an inboard and outboard cue. The foil works as a switch to complete the circuit. I swapped inboard for outboard and vise versa, so the shut down cue is on inboard cue. I ran a test film from machine 2 to machine 1 and it didn't revert, but when I ran from machine 1 to machine 2, it sounded as if it reverted. I will have to check again and watch the light instead of listening for it. Bernie  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-18-2012 02:23 PM                     You have reversion after 4 unreadable blocks. Keep in mind that the foil will make other blocks unreadable because the print won't bend as usual on the drum where the foil is applied. But if you apply the foil at the end of a reel, the caching system of the DA20 should kick in and prevent the reversion (you should see "0" as error rate for a moment). How far from the end of the reel do you place the foil? Do you put it on emulsion side or base side?  |  IP: Logged Bernie Anderson Jr Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: Woodbridge, New Jersey Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-18-2012 06:18 PM                        The cue is placed 14 feet from the changeover cue dots and it is folded over the edge of the film.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-19-2012 11:16 AM                     Use thinner cue tape, or when you lay the tape on the film, just don't cover the SRD track but lay over the SDDS track only and trim off the excess - don't fold over.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-19-2012 11:18 AM                     unfortunately the cache should cover only up to 4.1 feet of film before the LFOA (66 frames). You may want to try smaller cues, not folded around the film. I used to place 8 perforations cues; eventually found that a very thin 4 perfs cue - not folded - was perfectly fine for my automation.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-19-2012 12:47 PM                     Guys, you are not paying attention to one thing: Bernie's got the old cue detectors where the foil must bridge two rollers to make contact. Shorter cues are NOT possible with them, and if you don't wrap them around they may not have enough continuity (electrically) to work reliably. Bernie, you need to get a set of FM-35's or other non-contact cue detector and you can then use either side of the film with a single frame cue that will hit every time. I am positive that with a little looking in the "Equipment For Sale" section you can find someone selling them..or put up a "wanted" post. Problem solved.  |  IP: Logged Bernie Anderson Jr Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: Woodbridge, New Jersey Registered: Apr 2000 posted 04-19-2012 01:32 PM                        Thanks guys, What I've done to date is swap the inboard and outboard cue wires, so this way C/O and shutdown cues are on inboard side, plus the automation works on a 2 inch cue instead of the 4 inch cue. I've only ran one changeover and so far it seems to hold in Digital on the DA 20. The only thing I think I heard was a faint static pop at the point of changeover. I have to listen to it again to be sure. Bernie  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-19-2012 02:34 PM                     thanks Tony for sharing that with us.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-19-2012 04:13 PM                     Congrats on the find and hope the issue is resolved for you then. Reason why I made the mention of the trim is that I worked in a 4plex booth with V5's and had the Xetron dry grounding roller contact type failsafes where a good length of cue tape had to make them work. We were having sensing problems, thus I tried the one side and trim trick, and this procedure really did help-why I suggested it for the OP here. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-19-2012 11:27 PM                     Marco and Monte: I do apologize if the tone of my post did not read well...I typed it in a hurry and only now, looking back realized it sounded harsh. Monte: I am really surprised that worked for you..my past experience with that style cue detector had only a long, wrapped cue working reliably for my setups. The exception was the copper foil cues (I think Kelmar made them) that were about 3" long and fit nicely between the perfs and outer edge of the film..they even came with a nifty block so they would be aligned perfectly. Alas, like all really good things, they got discontinued.  |  IP: Logged

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