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Author Topic: DTS 6D - Cuing pulse Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 04-06-2012 10:29 AM                     I hope I am using the right phrase.... Is there a way to adjust the time it takes a 6D to send the pulse to cue a processor, in this case a Sony 3000, to change playback formats. Inevitably this happens during the fox logo or a dts snipe, where the change is obvious. Even if I was able to shave 1 or 2 seconds would be a great help.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-06-2012 12:56 PM                     Hi, The DTS player will pulse the sound format as soon as it's ready to playback. I would blame the Sony processor. Not too familiar with it but I remember there were two ways to handle cues and using one of those the processor would wait a few seconds after the cue is received before switching format. The cue is sent from the DTS player when the DIGITAL light becomes green. If your sound processor does NOT switch to the right format immediately after the LED becomes green, then it's the SDDS processor. In this case hopefully someone else could chime and help.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-06-2012 02:53 PM                     I think we all know what my solution would be.... But in case shit-canning the SDDS isn't an option, I would suggest two things: 1: Get an electronic-savvy friend to build a delay circuit to delay the cue. Be forewarned that it WILL cause an issue on any reversions to analog if the DTS loses timecode. 2: Add 4-5 seconds worth of blank, black film between the trouble spots. The short blackout will mask the reversion process. (You need at least 4 seconds worth because the DTS "freewheels" the track for 4 seconds when timecode is lost.) But the real issue here is that your "A" or "B" chain (or both) is not set up properly. The switch from DTS to analog and vice-versa should be pretty inaudible, with very little or no change in level.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-06-2012 03:03 PM                        How about this: Disconnect the control line from the DTS box that pulses the processor into digital (leave the other control lines to allow reversion). If you are just using DTS for feature films (and are unconcerned about using it for a mix of trailers or shorts with differing sound formats), this should work fine. You can manually switch the processor to format 10 (or whatever Sony uses) when you want DTS and switch it to 05 when you don't. The problem with this is, of course, if DTS drops out for any reason, it won't pulse the processor back into format 10 when the reader starts picking up timecode again. I wouldn't do it with any other sound format, but DTS tends to be sufficiently reliable that it generally does not drop out during a feature. Alternatively, as a variation on the above, connect the control line, but have a relay on it between the DTS box and the processor. Have the relay open when you don't want DTS and have it close when you do. This could probably be controlled with an automation system using foil cues on the film or house light settings, but Brad would be the person to ask about that.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-06-2012 03:17 PM                     Tony, I think the problem here is the opposite. The 6D calls for its format and the SONY delays it a few seconds, changing the format in the middle of the Fox/DTS logo. Scott, I wouldn't really do it. Yes, DTS is reliable but I would not risk the chance to MUTE the entire auditorium if a bad disk/timecode/drive appears. I am sure there is a way to wire the 3000 like a Dolby processor, losing the extra capability offered by the Sony (something like "I know what formats are on and you can set the priority of fallback" - who cares if you have those delays!)  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-06-2012 03:18 PM                        I wasn't saying that he should disconnect the entire automation connector on the DTS box. Just the pin that pulses format 10. Reversion will still work if everything else is in place. What will not work is the pulse back to DTS if timecode is temporarily lost.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-06-2012 03:34 PM                     Ah ok, sorry I missed that. In such a case, anyway, he should pulse the DTS manually at the beginning of the show. And if he did it automatically by some automations, there would be the risk that the player woudn't play for whatever reason, causing silence in the auditorium.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-06-2012 05:19 PM                     (Can't cut and paste to put in a URL short cut), but would this help any? (cut and paste this in an address bar on your brower to read the link.) I did a Google search for "DFP-3000" and this was about half down the window... [PDF] DTS-6 to Sony DFP-3000www.datasatdigital.com/support/.../product...dfp3000/downloadYou +1'd this publicly. Undo File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View 1. DTS-6 to Sony DFP-3000. AUDIO. DFP-3000. *DTS-6 “6-track”. DESCRIPTION. AUX IN. 50-pin D-connector DESCRIPTION. Left Shield. 1. N.C.. Left Hi. 2. 6 ...  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-07-2012 06:15 AM                     I had a little fun reading the quick start of the SDDS 3000 manual. As said, I'm not too familiar with the unit. But as I remembered you can use the "sophisticated" fallback structure of the SDDS where the player knows all the time whether the other Digital formats are working or not through an "OK" signal, or you can just short the automation and manually select the formats. In the former, say you have SDDS-DTS-DD connected. and your fallback is to switch to DTS if SDDS fails and eventually DD if DTS fails. Say your DTS is not working, the processor will fallpack from SDDS to DD, ignoring the DTS. It's the SONY that is handling the fallbacks, not Dolby/DTS. In the latter, it's like a Dolby processor. You have to select SDDS or DTS with external pulses coming from the digital players - and that could be confusing if multiple cues are received by multiple decoders! To disable the 'sophisticated' fallback system, you should short pin 34 or 35 (aux 1 or 2) to ground. Possibly you then have to amend the fallback configuration with the setup software. Doing this, you can always select AUX1 and AUX2 from the front panel, regardless the status of their sources. But, again, someone more skilled with SDDS processors could possibly chime in and confirm that this is correct!  |  IP: Logged Bill Duelly Film Handler Posts: 92 From: Roselle Park, NJ Registered: Feb 2006 posted 04-08-2012 05:02 PM                     Thanks for the input guys. I'll try some more tests and see if I can glean any more information. I found buried in dts literature that after the light goes green on the projector reader, a second later, the digital light, comes on on the player, it then immediately sends the signal to kick over. Now that I have given this some dep thought, I note that when I change inputs on the front panel, there is some delay, of approx 2 seconds. I wonder if this delay applies to fallback switching.... Also, I think that may be a software setting, as I thought I saw that format change can have a delay put to it. I need to get the special laptop to check that out, as it is not something that is aces able from the front panel.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-08-2012 05:07 PM                     Bill, block the led of the dts reader during a reel of film, then unblock it and see how quickly the Sony switches to it once the playback light on the dts6-d lights up. Just a stab in the dark here, but I'm wondering if your issue isn't due to missing timecode lead-in on the black before these logos start. It DOES take a couple of seconds for the cd to spin up and start playback.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-08-2012 07:24 PM                     Do as Brad suggests, if that is not the case, I reckon you cannot change the fallback delay.  |  IP: Logged Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 04-08-2012 08:27 PM                     Yes and I have often found the missing time code start on my Head 1 countdown leader.If a trailer was added by the studio they may cut closer to the picture start leaving dts start on the leader. In other words if you were to just play reel one out of the can the feature opening logo may start playing for a bit before the trailer takes over suddenly.When you make the print up and undo the splice they made for the first trailer your actually leaving the feature logo dts start on the leader. maybe...  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 04-08-2012 11:13 PM                     Lots of great info here and good discussion, but based on this from the OP: quote: ..... Inevitably this happens during the fox logo or a dts snipe, where the change is obvious. ....there is an issue with the sound system alignment. The difference between a DTS track and the analog on the same film should NOT have an "obvious" difference. (Especially if the OP's change is one of levels.) So there is another issue here that needs to be addressed.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-09-2012 05:38 AM                     As far as I remember nor Dolby nor SDDS processors have a smooth transiction to 6ch input. I believe he's referring to the micro-interruption that can be clearly heard when the processor switches between formats, not to the level change.  |  IP: Logged

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