my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » BY PASSING AUTOMATION ON A KINOTON FP20 (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: BY PASSING AUTOMATION ON A KINOTON FP20 Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-11-2011 05:58 PM                     Wondered if anyone can help in re-wiring a Kinoton FP20 which is around 15 years old. I need to find out how to by pass the automation so that i can get the projector working. At the moment the only way i can get this projector working is to keep my finger pressed on the green start on button. If some one has a spare copy of the service manual or wiring diagrams this could help. Cheers, Rob.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-11-2011 06:26 PM                     Hey Rob, welcome to Film-Tech. Would you mind going into the editor and making your thread title a bit more specific? Makes a search later much easier.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-11-2011 07:53 PM                     Hey John, thanks for the warm welcome, i have now edited my topic for ease of reference.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 10-12-2011 01:35 AM                     Rob, Is this yet another ex Cineworld machine? If so, there should be some electronics in the back door, NOT the board with all the relays on. Anyway, simply unplug the automation controller and it should run as a standard FP20. If it's not ex Cineworld, it may well be looking for a contact from a cakestand or another possibility is that it has the orange roller type of film break sensor, and those are notorious for failure.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-12-2011 07:06 AM                     Hi Pete, Yes it seems these came from Brighton. Thanks for the useful information. I think i know the board you mean which is situated at the bottom of the back door. Now all i need to do is work out how to re-wire the Xenon Lamphouse.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-12-2011 07:51 PM                     I have unplugged the small circuit board which is situated at the bottom before you get to the large capacitors in the door and no luck? The plot thickens, tracing the lead from the on green button this is some how wired to the film break senor roller. As I still get power by putting my finger on the green button. But stops when I take my finger off it. Can the on button connection be rewired somewhere else so that it can function as an off-on button? My only other issue is that the built in dowser is stuck in on mode. Even pressing the on off dowser buttons nothing seems to work. I believe this was used with a platter system and have also ruled out and cut the wires to the platter sensors which where still attached which I have now dismantled thou has not helped in anyway.  |  IP: Logged Jean-Marc Toussaint Film Handler Posts: 60 From: Paris, France Registered: May 2008 posted 10-14-2011 12:56 AM                        Rob, have you screened a film with it already ? I suppose not. The red roller at the bottom of the projector's head is a film break fail safe. When threaded properly, the film will put tension on said roller and keep the power running.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-14-2011 04:53 AM                     Hello Jean -Marc, Hope you are well. I have disconected the red sensor roller thinking this maybe the problem. Thou it appears to be still in automation mode? As soon as i switch on the power the dowser is already in place in the film gate. And when i use the buttons for the dowser on off button nothing works. The top four buttons (3 white and one green) i press the green button and the projector comes to life until i take my finger off it that is. Not sure what the other 3 white buttons really do. The top two white buttons don't appear to do anything, but the bottow row of buttons one white one green do. The white button advances the film at a slow pace, so i guess this is used for lacing up the film before actually running the film. Anyway any ideas would be welcomed as to be honest i'm giving up!  |  IP: Logged Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 10-14-2011 02:44 PM                     quote: Rob Clarke Tucker The top four buttons (3 white and one green) i press the green button and the projector comes to life until i take my finger off it that is. Not sure what the other 3 white buttons really do When I did Relief Projection Work at ABC/UGC I belive it was common that the Automation would control the Projector Motor (Gretten Ward) the Green Button was normally wired to Motor Run down (inch Down), later converted to Invertor Drive, the other two Buttons would had been Lens Change. Looking at an ealier (Basic) Drawing for a FP20, there are vaired Drawings and you will need to know what version you have and any Mods that may have been done, I would consider to re-wire back as an Manual-Use Projector, ie without Automation Controled.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-14-2011 03:24 PM                     Hello Ben, Thanks for that extra information as it now makes sense about the top two row of white buttons that don’t do anything. It would be nice to use these as they were used for lens change but not a major problem if not. I think that's the only way to go to find out how to get it back to how it was before any modifications were done for automation. The only thing I have to go on to try and identify the version I have is that it is around 15 years old and was made in West Germany. I have been told that most of the circuits boards including relays needs to be taken out from the door. Thou not sure how true that maybe. I do know that the row of 4 buttons, the bottom two which include the green have been rewired for automation I would assume. So if there is anyone who can help me obtain some drawings for this model or a manual that would be the only way to crack this and getting it back to full working condition.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 10-15-2011 04:09 AM                     If it came from a Cinewold site, where most of the used Kinoton projectors I've seen lately have come from, it will most likely not have been couple to Gretton Ward automation. Unless it was a site they took over from ABC/MGM/Cannon/whateverwe'recalledtoday. Gretton Ward got out of the film automation game a while before Cineworld/UGC appeared on the scene. The usual automation fitted by Cineworld was a Kinoton product. I've never seen it anywhere other than Cineworld sites. The board with the relays on (try posting some pictures of the innards please). Is necessary as those relays control all the projector functions. Unless you fancy designing and wiring your own control loom. The behaviour you describe... The machine is functioning exactly as it should with film break open, or stoped by automation. With regard to the film break roller, you should not disconnect it, it goes open circuit on film break, so you should in reality bypass it. Short the two wires together.  |  IP: Logged Tim Asten Film Handler Posts: 98 From: Brighton, United Kingdom Registered: Nov 2006 posted 10-15-2011 02:17 PM                     Cineworld Brighton did indeed use Gretton Ward automation. They are converting to all digital around now. Pete is correct though, it was a former MGM. It opened around 1990 making the equipment 21 years old or so. I wasn't aware that Cineworld were selling on their old equipment, I heard they were scrapping it all. They may have kept a few good condition machines for re-sale? Perhaps Rob can tell us where he acquired the machine? Tim.  |  IP: Logged Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 10-15-2011 03:54 PM                     quote: Tim Asten They may have kept a few good condition machines for re-sale? Perhaps Rob can tell us where he acquired the machine? I expect it was a "Back Door" sale as I belive the official terms this stuff is going for scrap, sometimes you see stuff on Ebay and just wondered if this is being sold by the Company Assets Management or some one has got this stuff and sold it on!.  |  IP: Logged Rob Clarke Tucker Film Handler Posts: 28 From: Erith, Kent., United Kingdom Registered: Oct 2011 posted 10-15-2011 04:42 PM                     Don't think mine came from Brighton but i do know mine came from a Cine World. Anyway here are picture of the FP20 taking into account i have stripped all the wires that where cut along with taking out some sensor platter attached. Along with any connections to the small board you can see at the bottom of the back door.  |  IP: Logged Tom Holdsworth Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Welwyn, Herts. U.K. Registered: Sep 2011 posted 10-16-2011 09:07 AM                     Sorry not replying to help out...... but I have an identical FP20 ex cineworld, so far I have not even got any AC into it, how do you get 240 volt AC into the machine? I just have a handful of cut wires and no idea how to get the machine functioning, so would be any help appreciated. I have sought wiring info. on this forum but nothing helpful so far. Tom  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.