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Author Topic: Sticky prints and near brain wraps Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 09-21-2011 05:58 AM                     We have just started running our prints using a single Westar projector and a Kinoton ST200E platter. When watching closely I've noticed that during the odd reel join (not necessarily the actual splice itself) the feed module will simultaneously pull-off two layers of film from the inside of the roll. The adhesion is rapidly broken however and the remaining loop is quickly dispensed with automatically following one or two rotations of the platter deck. My questions are: How can I minimise or eliminate these events? I am already performing a thorough inspection of each reel join and removing any apparent adhesive residues. Am I being over fussy and neurotic? Is what I am observing a normal part of platter behaviour or is it a more serious symptom of something approaching a brain wrap? Should I get a life and stop watching the platter so closely? We are using a Kelmar cleaner with Filmguard but since the prints we have screened to date have been one night shows only, there has been little opportunity to observe any potential benefits of this. Please help. My nerves (and heart) can't take any more!!!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-21-2011 06:17 AM                        Adhesive residue would certainly be my first thought, especially if you're using a CIR joiner. I never encountered a CIR that could make a clean cut along both edges of the film, and almost always had to trim them with scissors afterwards. On an untrimmed join that was messy at the edges, it could easily have an effect for 4-5 film layers past the splice. That having been said, a little bit of a sticky separation at reel joins, so to speak, always struck me as normal platter behaviour and not much to worry about. The only serious problems I had were when a previous cinema had coated a layer of chinagraph on the edge of the film several milimetres thick in order to assist in locating the splice when packing off the print. And anyone who does this on the soundtrack side of the print really does deserve to be escorted to a cellar and introduced to The Gimp, because it can easily cause 30-60 seconds of Dolby Digital dropping in and out.  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 09-21-2011 06:26 AM                     Thanks Leo. We are using a Splycemar splicer and it's making pretty clean joins. The problematic adhesions generally seem to be located about two or three feet on either side of each splice! My suspicions have been aroused by the patchy appearance of white edge marking material (presumably used by a previous venue to indicate a join)which can be found on adjacent layers. These things didn't cause a problem when we were reel to reel!  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-21-2011 06:29 AM                        I suspect it's chinagraph. What some 'projectionists' do is to press a chinagraph pencil on the edge of the film surface as the platter (or plate holding the 2k reel while building on the bench) rotates in order ot make an identification mark for breaking down. However, chinagraph is sticky stuff. It could be worse - they could have used Tippex (US = Whiteout).  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-21-2011 06:53 AM                     I have found that some operators use masking tape, or that blue painters tape, to attach the heads and feet to the imaged portion of the reel. This adhesive migrates to adjacent film layers while on the shipping reel. Best method for removing it is to use a wrap of the same type of tape with the adhesive side out and dab it on the effected areas. The adhesive likes the bits better than the film so you can remove the bits without harming the film base or image. Anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol is a stronger solvent for these adhesives but must be used with great care and without any rubbing as scratches can be created.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-21-2011 12:05 PM                     You could be using poor quality splicing tape as well.  |  IP: Logged Frank Cox Film God Posts: 2234 From: Melville Saskatchewan Canada Registered: Apr 2011 posted 09-21-2011 12:54 PM                        It could also be static electricity, or it could even be rough edges where your splicer cut the sprocket holes in the tape where a little piece of tape sticks out and gets stuck in the sprocket hole next to it. For some reason I always found static cling to be worst at the splices.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-21-2011 02:27 PM                     One could dab a squirt of FG on a cloth and wipe the splice after its been completed..  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-21-2011 04:44 PM                     Does the person making the splices like jelly donuts? (sorry, could not help it).  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 09-22-2011 08:58 AM                     Thanks guys! Answering the points raised: We're using Jack Roe splicing tape. Could indeed be a static problem? Will try the FG splice wipe! No, not into doughnuts (and certainly not in the projection booth)!!! Additionally, I'm learning to be slightly less neurotic (less platter watching). What will I do when we go digital? Many thanks, everyone.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-22-2011 09:06 AM                        quote: Andy Frodsham Additionally, I'm learning to be slightly less neurotic (less platter watching). What will I do when we go digital? Collect unemployment (sorry, couldn't pass it up)  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 09-22-2011 09:12 AM                     or sit watching the hard disks spin (try and spot the head bounce)!! I can do this as well as being unemployed!!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-22-2011 01:19 PM                     Jack Roe's is good stuff - just do splicer cleaning maintenance on a standard basis (and FG cleans splicers very well..) This would be the tip to being the learning of digital so one can be a tech in this field instead of waiting for the pink slip to be issued...  |  IP: Logged Walter Rabey Film Handler Posts: 14 From: Canada Registered: Nov 2010 posted 09-24-2011 12:23 PM                    If its static and the humidity is a tad low where you are, you could try setting up a humidifier in your booth to see if it helps. Some find them to be a life saver during the cold when the furnace dries up the air.  |  IP: Logged Jen Pelto Film Handler Posts: 30 From: Muskegon, MI, USA Registered: Aug 2011 posted 09-24-2011 03:12 PM                     It sounds like if it resolves itself before actually brainwrapping, it is static. I notice this happens a couple of feet before splices especially. Maybe the extra thickness of the splice puts some pressure on the surrounding film and they temporarily "stick" together? I'm not a scientist, but it sounds right. At any rate, it happens to us ALL the time. I literally look over and notice it happening sometimes when I am upstairs, and it's like everything goes in slow motion. You think, "Dear lord, thank god I'm up here to fix a brain wrap happening before my eyes!!" But it corrects itself. That is what those guiding rollers are for on the brain. I think you're just being neurotic We bought a few humidifiers but our booth is HUGE (I know, lucky us, I'll try to keep bragging to a minimum). It never really made a difference in the booth for us. Knock on wood, the static has never resulted in problems. We did have an issue with a print a few weeks ago (The Tree of Life). Some dimwit left (put?) something extremely sticky on about 3 frames mid-reel. Almost like a clear tacky glue. It kept "sticking" to the next layer of film and going through the brain in a double layer and causing a brainwrap. I misdiagnosed the problem the first time (based on what the projectionist told me happened) but the second time it happened, well, shame on me. So in theory it "could" be something actually sticky on those frames. If you notice it happening at the same time on the same movie, I would definitely take a lens tissue or cloth between your fingers and try to "feel" if there is something ON the film.  |  IP: Logged

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