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Author Topic: Chronic dimness
Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 08-09-2011 04:01 AM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey guys,
Searched dim OR dark a bit ago but didn't turn up anything really conclusive...

I've got 2 35mm houses reading about the same light level.

The first is a 2k lamp in an LP Associates lamphouse behind a Century SAW. The other is a 2k lamp in a Cinemechanica console behind a Vic 5.

Both are reading about 5fL in the middle of the screen with a brand new lamp evenly lighting the screen.

The reflectors appear to be in good condition, the lamp is aligned, etc. But the image is still very dark.

Where do I start?

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Jonathan Worthing
Master Film Handler

Posts: 384
From: Hereford, UK
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-09-2011 04:20 AM      Profile for Jonathan Worthing   Email Jonathan Worthing   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A bit more detail.

What is the size of your screen.

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 08-09-2011 11:44 AM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me. For the first house the width is around 25', common width.

The other is roughly the same, maybe ~30'

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-09-2011 03:52 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
EDIT: Just noticed a red flag..you said brand new lamps..did someone leave the protective covers on?!?!

You have a serious misalignment issue..2k is more that enough to get you to 16fl on those size screens. Hell, UC Irvine is shooting a 26' wide pic at 19+fl with 1.6k bulbs.

Recheck (with a laser kit if possible) the height, lateral and azimuth and tilt of those lamphouses...and make sure the "snout" to aperture distance is correct.

The LP lamp is very efficient and so is the Cinemech...so something is still seriously wrong with alignment or bulb focus.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-09-2011 06:40 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Cinemech should do well. The LP is an antique reflector and nothing to write home about. LP lamphouses are very well built though.

Mark

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-10-2011 01:28 AM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Recheck (with a laser kit if possible) the height, lateral and azimuth and tilt of those lamphouses.
Reminds me of a funny story. When I was working at Ballantyne I went in to talk to the guy aligning the lamphouses. Cool guy, maybe mid twenties. I had some time to kill, so I asked him to show me what he does. He had a laser kit that was made there. when he got done, he took the mirror out of the reflector, it was machined there. I asked him if I could look at it because I noticed it didn't fit very snug in the reflector. When he handed it to me it rattled. The damn mirror inside was loose. I put it back in and moved it around and rotated it, and the laser reflection was moving around everywhere. He said "dude, I'm just doing what they showed me to do". I laughed and told him just to get them close, I check the alignment when I install them because they get bounced around so much from the factory to the booth.

Dominic, is this a new install or were you just changing bulbs and if so what was the light output before? Have you checked the amps and volts, also the 3 phase coming in? I've had to change a few breakers in the panels because the electricians didn't tighten them good enough. I've also had to change contactors in the consoles for the same reason. I started terminating my own power on installs and tightening the breakers at night when they were gone.

Rick

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Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: Boulder Creek, CA.
Registered: Jan 2004


 - posted 08-10-2011 03:54 AM      Profile for Dominic Espinosa   Email Dominic Espinosa   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks guys.
Richard, current all reads normal.

In the Cinemechanica it's got a new contactor, new diodes, and relatively new capacitors.
As well as a new reflector.

The LP has a reasonably good condition reflector, older Christie rectifier. Power was a little low, tweaked it up but nothing else seemed to be wrong with it.

Our preferred electrician (years of experience doing theater electrical specifically for us) did the panels so I'm confident in the connections being tight.

These are separate locations. I took over oversight of the projection, facilities, and operations management in whole last year and have been working through a back-log of issues the guy I replaced had left standing.
Some for years on end.
These, unfortunately, were not the highest priority; you can imagine the state of affairs.

But I digress...I was afraid I'd have to get up close and personal with it and diddle with alignment. Ugh.

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 08-17-2011 06:06 PM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I encountered a problem last year with low light level due to incorrect arc position in relation to the focal point of the mirror. Even though a spacer was being used, it turned out that this particular lamp needed a slightly longer one, which made all the difference. Just wondering if that might be a possibility here.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-18-2011 06:49 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, could someone actually leave the cover on a lamp? [Eek!] Scary stupid. And also, wouldn't it like instantly melt or something equally horrid? I am imagining a lamp explosion after a few minutes running time...the thing wouldn't be on long enough for anyone to notice how dim the picture was!

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 08-20-2011 06:16 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
lenses burnt, or the light eating type, if rest of the optics comes out on track?

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Phil Ranucci
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 236
From: Carpinteria,CA, United States
Registered: May 2006


 - posted 08-21-2011 02:10 PM      Profile for Phil Ranucci   Email Phil Ranucci   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the LP reflectors, have you checked that the nut holding them to the mount is tight? I've seen them get loose and the reflector droops and it really kills the light.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 08-30-2011 12:59 AM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Tony, could someone actually leave the cover on a lamp? [Eek!] Scary stupid. And also, wouldn't it like instantly melt or something equally horrid? I am imagining a lamp explosion after a few minutes running time...the thing wouldn't be on long enough for anyone to notice how dim the picture was!
Frank, yes they can, I have seen it happen. LP used to have a bulb on display in their lobby with the cover melted on it.

It will melt pretty instantly, and depending on a number of factors the bulb will not likely explode. The residue can stay cooked onto the bulb envelope for a long time too, so that's why I brought it up.

Phil, good point on the reflector nut. [thumbsup]

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